Listen & Learn

Speaker 1 I don't even know where to start. This. Speaker 1 This is a little different. This is the family emergency we've been talking about. Why we have been so inconsistent lately. Speaker 1 We are not talking about anything past hurt. We're right in the middle of this. My father's on hospice at home, and Speaker 1 you and my mom and I are all here taking care of him. Speaker 1 when I was researching Speaker 1 for this episode, I noticed that most of what I found was all clinical or just really, really sad stuff. And nobody talked about what it actually felt like and the stress and the things that hold us together and the places that you find strength. So that's what I wanted to try to do today. Speaker 1 So let me start with what my head sounds like in the morning. Speaker 1 It's not a one thought. It's just it a barrage of things that goes up through my head thinking about all the things that are, that are happening. Yeah. Speaker 2 What's on that checklist. Speaker 1 Is it today, is today going to be better or worse? Is there anything we can do that we haven't done? Is there anything we need to do? How is he? What are his vitals? Well, how are his vitals? Trending. Is he comfortable? Is there anything we need to do to make it more comfortable? Who's coming over today? Speaker 1 When are they coming? Who else is coming? How do we manage the visits as he's sleeping enough? Is he sleeping too much? Is mom okay? Are you okay? Does anybody need anything? That's just a few of the things that goes through my head. Speaker 1 And that's just in the morning, right when I wake up. And it doesn't stop. Speaker 1 It plays on in my head pretty much the entire day. Every single thing that I'm doing, making coffee. Should I be checking his oxygen? You know, you're eating lunch and calculating the time. The nurses coming so you can ask her that question. There's just an emotional drain, and it's new every single day. Speaker 2 And this is a big part of the reason, too, why we've been so inconsistent is because this is what's going on. It's it's like your mind is in a state of permanent alert. There's no off switch. Speaker 1 Do you have these things in the mornings to do? You think like this when you wake up or what are you what are you thinking about? Speaker 2 I I'm going to cry. Speaker 2 I don't have a checklist. I think what I think of is. Speaker 2 I just want to spend as much time with him as I can. And. Speaker 2 The last week or so, it's been really hard because he's been very tired. Speaker 2 And he's been sleeping Speaker 2 And so we're here obviously we're here all day, Speaker 2 but we're not going to bother him if he's resting. Speaker 2 And I just want to talk to him and spend time with him. But I can't because Speaker 2 he's just sleeping all the time. Speaker 2 So that's what I think of is Speaker 2 am I going to get to spend time with him today? What are we going to talk about? You know, what are we going to have for lunch? Or what moments are we going to be able to share together today? Speaker 1 Yeah, I get that. That's something that I think about a lot is Speaker 1 the time that I don't get with him, because I'm so busy managing everyone else getting their time. Speaker 2 Yes. Speaker 2 Like I said, you know, we're here all the time, but then when other people are here, Speaker 2 you have to let them have their time as well. So. Right. Speaker 1 And I want to and he wants that. Right. But then that negates. Speaker 2 Well then we missed that. We missed that time. Speaker 1 Yeah I think you get more time with him than I do honestly that that personal time I get some. But by the time everybody's gone for the day, it's he's tired. I'm tired. Everybody's ready for the day to be done. Speaker 2 Well, because there's almost like this administration Speaker 2 situation happening. Speaker 1 Yeah. That mental load of shepherding someone out of this world while you're still stuck in it is exhausting. Speaker 2 And what do you do with it? What do you do with this exhaustion? You can't just Speaker 2 sit in it all day. Speaker 1 I think you have to reframe it. Speaker 1 Speaker 1 I was researching this on Reddit and all the questions people are asking, one of the ones that really bothered me, actually. But I do understand is that people are asking Speaker 1 why they feel guilty for wanting it to be over. Speaker 1 Now, I don't feel that way, but Speaker 1 people out there do. They. And it's not that they're sad that they feel that way. It's not a Speaker 1 in a negative context that they want it over. They just want the pain and suffering that they're dealing with, the pain and suffering that their loved ones dealing with to be over is really what I think they're asking. Speaker 1 But for me, I say this all the time, it's my greatest honor. I wouldn't do anything else. I wouldn't want to be anywhere else. And Exodus 2012 is honor your mother or your father and mother. Speaker 1 And I don't think we always look at it in this way, because you don't think about that, right? We don't think about our parents die when we're young. Speaker 1 Right. Speaker 1 But that's a reality that's going to happen. He told me one day, you know, thanks for doing all this. And I said, Speaker 1 you know, there's no place I'd rather be. And then I but one day, the first time he said that to me, I said, Speaker 1 it's supposed to be this way. Speaker 1 I'm supposed to bury you. You're not supposed to bury me. That would be really bad. I could never imagine that. Speaker 1 But. Speaker 1 It's a it's a present job now, like, this is my current job. is I sit here and I care for, him as best as I can, help my mom as best as I can. Speaker 1 And that's just what we do. Yeah. And it's it's an action. It's what we're doing now. Speaker 2 And they always say that, like, you need to go home, get some rest. You need to have a life outside of this. And both of us have been very adamant that Speaker 2 this is where we want to be. This is what we want to do. Speaker 2 We wouldn't have it any other way. And yes, that mental load is constant for both me and you. Speaker 2 But for you especially, you have kind of a switch mode going on here. You have your your son Speaker 2 inside of you, and then you have this medical side of you as well. Speaker 1 Yeah, I, I talked to my mom about this the other day. I don't know, I have, you know, a medical background for being a paramedic, Speaker 1 And Speaker 1 It's just something that comes really natural. And as I started studying his case and learning about what was going on within him, Speaker 1 it gave me Speaker 1 too much information sometimes. Speaker 1 So it's like a curse at times. Yeah, I'm glad that I have the knowledge because I can help guide. Yeah, through with the medications and I can I know what the trends in the vitals mean. And I know all these things are and that helps. But at the same time, Speaker 1 it can be it can be a heavy, heavy cross to bear for me because people will look at me for answers sometimes, and I'm very bad in the way I deliver those that answer because I give a very truthful response. Speaker 1 So when someone asks a medical question like a family member or someone who's visiting my brain, just flip the switch and I give data. I give exactly what's happening, what we're expecting next. I'm not giving a pep talk. It's more of a report. Speaker 2 Yeah, and Speaker 2 being on the other side of that, I can tell you it's hard. It's hard to hear a lot of times Speaker 2 People come to you looking for comfort, and they get this clinical briefing instead. Speaker 1 Yeah, I know, and I could probably have a better delivery. Speaker 1 But here's the thing. I want to be clear and for people to understand, and that truth is really hard to hear, but it is the truth. Speaker 1 And I don't want to give people false hope or beat around the bush if I'm not telling you everything, it creates a false hope Speaker 1 and people need to understand the gravity of these situations. Speaker 1 My understanding has allowed so many people to express their love and gratitude towards him, and had I not told them where things were then, maybe they would never make it by in time to see him. And they're filled with regret, and they thought they had plenty of time, but they didn't because I didn't tell them the truth. Speaker 1 And there's nothing I want more than it could be then to be completely and totally wrong about all of this, and for God to just heal him. Speaker 1 That be my greatest thing. But what I don't want to do is Speaker 1 tell people things are looking great, things are looking up. We're all, you know, we're hopeful, right? When the reality is that's not the case. And I know that a lot of people look to me in this situation for some answers, Speaker 1 knowing that it's going to be hard, harsh. Speaker 1 I had a whole conversation with my mom, the day before yesterday. It was stressing me out bad because every time I bring up something, about his, you know, the medications or or anything, I do give that clinical response. And it is. Speaker 1 I have poor bedside manner when it comes to that. And she was getting mad and frustrated at me. Speaker 1 And then I was starting to take that personal. So that made me not want to tell her the truth. Speaker 2 Well, and we're a religious family, so we have Speaker 2 we're leaning in on God and we're leaning in on the miracle. We want a miracle to happen. We have hope in God that this is going to happen. Yeah, but he's going to be okay. And of course, that is what you should be doing. But in your head you have you also have the practical medical side. Speaker 1 I think I have a duty to explain to people. Yeah. I told my kids, a while back, I said, start coming to visit your grandfather. I didn't tell them exactly what was going on at the moment, because I wasn't even 100% sure at that time where we were. I knew that the situation had gotten pretty severe and serious, and I told them, hey, come and start, spend some time with your grandpa. Speaker 1 because I didn't want them to have any regrets. I didn't want them to think, oh, there's plenty of time Speaker 1 now. They've all gotten a lot of extra time one on one time. My cousin, I mean, if people didn't understand where we were, then I wasn't up front with them. Speaker 1 Right? Speaker 1 We would just be here by ourselves everyday, miserable. Now we have an enormous amount of family support and so many people have come by to express, Speaker 1 what he's meant to them over the years. He's even said that he had no idea he had such an impact. Speaker 2 Yeah. I mean, it's it's always it's a good thing I'm not saying that it's a bad thing, but it's hard. It doesn't make it less hard to hear, even though it's the truth. And it's something that you need to hear. Speaker 1 I should probably learn how to give a better response most of the time. Speaker 2 I know, but sometimes when you're giving a response that somebody doesn't have as much time as you want them to have somebody that you love, Speaker 2 there's not necessarily a way you can frame it that's going to be good. Speaker 1 I agree, Speaker 1 maybe a little less clinician, a little more compassion in my in my tone I think. Speaker 2 So the frustration for you isn't the visits from everybody or the questions. It's when people want you to dress the truth up in costume and you refuse. Speaker 1 Yeah, because this whole thing has turned into like a living wake Speaker 1 and people coming by to see him and they say their peace while he can hear it. And it it's been beautiful, but it's also real. He's dying. And my job, part of it at least feels like guarding that reality. Yeah. So the honor isn't in making it sound nice. Speaker 1 It's and letting it be true, which I think allows people to have those very special moments. If you think everything's going to be fine, Speaker 1 you're not necessarily going to say what you need to say. And I can only imagine that the healing Speaker 1 that has been able to go on with him and other people, like, I can't imagine the conversations he and my mom have had. Speaker 1 Yeah. Speaker 2 I mean, what if what has been going on has been truly beautiful? Speaker 1 But so many people have come and people that are, you know, even have traveled far distances to come. Speaker 2 If you'll just walk out of his room and they're just in tears, I don't know what to do. I mean, there's just been an outpouring of people coming through Speaker 2 to talk about the impact that he's had on their lives and talk about, Speaker 2 how amazing of a man he is. Speaker 1 Yeah. And it's been Speaker 1 comforting to me Speaker 1 to see that. I think, I mean. Speaker 1 To like all of us, he's had, Speaker 1 checkered pasts and he's come full circle with that. He's spent, it seems like a lifetime repenting for anything he's ever done wrong by helping others, helping people. There's been a lot of people that I've known about, but then I've seen that there's even more people that I didn't know about. Speaker 1 And I think that that's very godly because we're not supposed to toot our own horn. Speaker 2 I had actually made a comment to one of our other cousins, a couple months back that he's like the dad of all dads. Speaker 1 Yeah, seriously. Speaker 2 And then me and, you know, my other cousin, we're talking about that and Speaker 2 I was saying, he's just so humble. You never know. He helps everyone do everything. And he never boasts. He barely even leaves the house. Speaker 1 Yeah. It's true. Speaker 2 You come to him and he is there to help you. Speaker 1 Yeah. And he never he never asked for, anything. Much if anything in return. Speaker 1 Yeah. So it's been really comforting to witness those special moments and see Speaker 1 some of my family members and some of his friends, Speaker 1 have those special times with him. And to see the impact that he had and, and hope that someday, I can measure up to that which I know will not be possible. Speaker 1 But it's also been Speaker 1 comforting to help my mom manage all this and the schedules, the visits, the meds, the difficult conversations. Speaker 1 It's tiring, but it's purposeful. Speaker 2 Right? Speaker 1 It's like, it's like a mission. I'm not just watching him die. He's actually. I think that we've been able to manage him really well. He's not in any pain right now. His his, Speaker 1 Medically, he's he's really good. Except for this thing that can't be fixed. This this part. That's that's, taking him away from us, Speaker 1 but helping him, being able to walk with him through this and help him into that next phase of his existence is is, really making a difference? He's told me a couple of times, you know, just Speaker 1 he and I, he said, you know, I'm going to miss you. Speaker 1 And I laugh and and almost cry like you're not going miss Speaker 1 And I say, you know, we'll miss you, but you we're not you're not going to miss us. Speaker 1 Especially now that we know where he's going. Speaker 1 And during this whole thing that was my biggest concern. At first I prayed for months, every day for God to open his heart and, and take him to heaven when he was ready. Speaker 2 Because his faith is not something I've ever heard him talk about. Speaker 1 Now, he grew up in the church. He's been baptized before. But Speaker 1 this type of Speaker 1 prognosis, this type of situation, when a doctor tells you, hey, I can't help you anymore, is it changes you. Yeah. And. Speaker 1 What we witnessed, what we all witnessed was, Speaker 1 to me, I grew up with nothing short of a miracle. He was accepting a prayer. Speaker 1 I remember one night, the four of us were sitting at dinner here, and you put your hands to grab. Speaker 2 Your mom said he's not going to want to pray. Speaker 2 And he said, yeah, I'll pray. Yeah. And he opened his hands. Yes. Speaker 1 And through that we have, have a neighbor across the street who has come over several times and prayed over him. My cousin is a pastor, comes over all the time and prays over him. My son, who got us back in the church comes and prays over him. Speaker 1 And he's so accepting of it and even says that it makes him feel better. Speaker 1 Yeah. And I think that's just been amazing, especially in the beginning when Speaker 1 I mean we were having 20 and 30 people here day every single day coming through the door and that's slowed down. But it's still ten people a day. Pretty much yeah. Speaker 1 And Speaker 1 these prayers have led to him reading more scripture. And you notice, you know, there might be some scriptures by his bed or something that he's reading or that maybe my mom is reading to him at night. Speaker 2 His pocket cross, he carries it across and I see it every. I see it like different places all the time and I'm like, I guess you're walking around with it or Speaker 2 carrying it around the house and Speaker 2 he. Speaker 1 One day we cut everybody out. We canceled all visitors. To my knowledge, it was only going to be the four of us. Me, you, my mom and dad. And they called my cousin up, and he told him that he wanted him to baptize him. Speaker 2 Yeah. Speaker 1 So Speaker 1 for me, that was really special. We we got to witness my dad. Speaker 1 In his bathroom, we fill up the tub, he got in, and you guys don't know. And this is absolute. Absolutely not him. Yeah. And we help him in there, and then. And then my cousin does the baptizes him right there. Speaker 2 It's just us four and they're five. Speaker 1 And we sat in their Speaker 1 sitting there for a while afterwards he was in the tub because it was warm water and it just made him feel good. And we sat there and we just talked for a while. We weren't really talking about anything in particular. We just were there in that special moment. And for me Speaker 1 I know that was a big deal for my cousin to be able to do that for him. Speaker 1 Yeah. When he, when he baptized you, I know it was a big deal for him, right? Speaker 2 Was it? Speaker 1 Yeah. It was he he's. I mean, that's a great honor to do. Yeah. And we, you know, I've talked about it several times since then. We just sometimes say, Speaker 1 dude, can you believe that? Speaker 2 Well, your dad. Yeah. I mean, that was it was Speaker 2 it was amazing. And I. Speaker 2 I feel so Speaker 2 special to have been able to witness that. Speaker 1 I know it was. I mean, he didn't want people there. Speaker 2 No. Speaker 1 I mean, he's I'm. Speaker 2 Actually surprised he even let us in there. He was I was I thought. Speaker 1 Just would be him or the two of them. Speaker 2 Doing it. Yeah. I thought he might say no. And I was going to say, well, this is a public thing, buddy, so I'm going to be in here. Yeah. Speaker 1 He stopped short of letting us record it. I'm surprised you didn't sneak that in. Speaker 1 But Speaker 1 that eternal transaction. Speaker 1 Honestly, Speaker 1 was it made me feel Speaker 1 so peaceful. Speaker 1 Because it had been my Speaker 1 biggest concern. Speaker 1 But Speaker 1 he had the opportunity to remedy his relationship with God. In what are his last moments. Speaker 1 And for that to happen Speaker 1 took a giant weight off of my shoulders. I was so stressed about that. That is honestly one of the few things I care about. I even I even prayed to God to, Speaker 1 to give him my place if that's what it takes. Speaker 1 And it was actually probably the next day that that he asked for the baptism. Speaker 1 Yeah. So thanks for that. So, you know, I think it's the only ones taking my place, guys. So I'm not giving it up to anybody else. Speaker 2 So the peace is there, but day to day, it's still a lot. This living wake that we're having is beautiful, but it's not exactly easy. Speaker 1 No. It's not. And it starts the first thing in the morning. We figure out what kind of day it's going to be. Speaker 1 And, you know, is he up for company? Does it mean quiet? We let him Speaker 1 sort of dictate that. Speaker 1 But his ultimately his health is going to decide everything right. You know the phone, the texts everybody you know meaning. Speaker 1 Well I get lots of texts from people some out of town that just asking about him which I think is great. They, they're checking in on him. You know, how's your dad doing? And Speaker 1 they're not Speaker 1 checking on me. Some people are, but they're not checking on me. They're checking on him without bothering him. Right? Sort of like there's. Speaker 1 They're respecting him. Speaker 2 Enough. I mean, they might have. Speaker 1 To disappear when this stuff happens. Speaker 2 The amount of text messages that we. He gets. Speaker 1 I was crazy is insane. Speaker 2 But, you know, we have to manage all that because we're the ones that are here all the time. So we're constantly juggling Okay, this person can come at this time. This person can come at this time, but he needs to rest in between. And we have lunch. We're trying to get everybody time, but not overwhelm him. Speaker 1 It's. And there's a lot there's there's, Speaker 1 people there's food. There's still tending to him. There's quieting conversations, moving them gently, moving them into another room. Speaker 1 cutting conversations off based on his needs. Do I go in there and. Speaker 2 If he's a bad guy and say, hey, you have to leave pretty much. Speaker 1 Pretty much I, I just say, you know, hey, dad, are you tired? And he'll tell me yes or no if he's in, if it's yes, I. Yeah. You don't have to leave it. You can't stay in here right now. You can sometimes, especially people that come from far away, you know, they may just leave out of the room for a little while, and then you go back in later when he's feeling better, or he'll get up and come in to the other room. Speaker 1 Sometimes he still walks around, uses Walker, but he still gets around the house pretty well. Speaker 1 Speaker 1 But we're just trying to give everyone their time and not overwhelm him at the same time. And it's a constant battle and Speaker 1 I don't know about you, but I am physically, emotionally exhausted more than I have been in a long time. I'm happy to do it, and I wouldn't change it. Speaker 1 Right. But it's tiring to do everything because I know that we need to tend to ourselves as well. But I also know that I have been doing that and I think about my mother and I know it's her husband, it's really her job over everyone's, she's able is more than able to do things. It's her job over everyone's to Speaker 1 you know, be the good soldier and do what needs to be done and not take breaks. Speaker 1 I'm glad that we can be here so that she can go to the grocery store. She needs to go, or just go visit some friends for a little while. Speaker 2 But as a. Speaker 1 Family, I think is important. Speaker 2 For us as a family. I think it's Speaker 2 there's no question about needing to be here and to, you know, offer as much support and help as we can and Speaker 2 it's about the time to and it may be selfish, but I just want to spend as much time as I can with him. So I'm going to be here Speaker 2 and do that. Speaker 1 And we're staying back here now. Speaker 1 because I was not able to sleep, because I had guilt for not being here. I worried that my mom's going to be here alone. Yes. You know, everything's going well and it's going good. And hopefully everything just the the sand runs out of the hourglass slowly and perfectly, but you just never know. Speaker 2 That's one. Speaker 1 Of my. And I don't want her to be here alone when that happens. Speaker 2 That's one of my biggest fears is that I'm going to be at work, or we're going to be not here when that happens. Speaker 1 Something else. It's tiring that I know that we we can change is Speaker 1 he's not really a people person at all. Yes. He's very he's a bit of a homebody. He doesn't like crowds. This has been his thing. But here lately it's been party central over here. He's had family dinners and we have a huge family. I think there was between 25 and 30 people here for lunch one day. Speaker 1 He's with three for the month of February. Birthday party. Speaker 2 And let me just say I've been asking him because our is in the same month and we have another big birthday. Your sister Speaker 2 and I've been asking him for a year to throw a joint birthday party and he has been telling me no for a year until one day he calls me into his room, just me. And he said, Speaker 2 I'm going to let you throw a birthday party. Speaker 1 For five people. Speaker 2 Yeah. And I recorded the conversation because it was so unbelievable. Speaker 1 Yeah. Nobody was going to believe that. Speaker 1 But the cost we're paying with his our energy so he can have these moments. And I think we're more than happy to to expend that energy. Yes. So he feels that love. And so people can have their goodbyes, knowing he's at peace. And God lets us do it without that extra layer of panic or just focus on giving him and everyone else that gift of time. Speaker 1 It's hard work, but it is the work that we're supposed to be doing right now. Well, I'm more than happy to do it. Speaker 2 And I pray every single day for me. You Speaker 2 him. Speaker 2 Our mom strength, peace, energy Speaker 2 and joy every single day. Speaker 1 And that was hard work. We stayed up and we did a lot of work for just that party. The other party was maybe actually even more difficult. But the other option is not getting to do it. Speaker 1 The other option is a phone call out of nowhere and a lifetime of I wish I had and that's awful. Speaker 1 And that's been really hard work those parties. Speaker 1 But the other option is not to get to do them. The other option is a phone call out of nowhere and a lifetime of I wish I had and that's awful. Speaker 1 Every minute matters to us and I we get to do things for him. Yeah. We get to show our love and we get to take care of him. Speaker 1 Not with the words that we say, necessarily, but the actions. Adjusting his pillow, getting his medicine. Speaker 1 putting his feet up, making sure he has quiet when he needs it. Speaker 2 But a lot of people would be angry. Speaker 1 And I said that before that. That's one of the biggest questions on line, is people are angry about the situation and I think they need to stop and maybe what are they angry about? Or the angry because Speaker 1 their loved ones being taken away from them? Or are they angry because they don't get to do what they want to do? Speaker 1 I don't have time for those people right? Speaker 1 But what's the point? That anger is just going to eat you up and steal the time you do have, and you will have regrets Speaker 1 I got to tell me the other day, I said, you've been a great dad. I don't know that I've ever said that. Yeah, I think it, Speaker 1 but Speaker 1 I don't know that I ever actually said it Speaker 1 to him. I mean, I've said that to other people for sure. Yeah. And plenty of people said, I wish he was my dad. Speaker 1 And we said, I love you to each other more times than we probably ever have in my entire life. Yeah, Speaker 1 we both think it. But there's something different when you say it and when you hear it I think. I love when my kids tell me. Yeah. Even if it's prompted by me saying it first. It means a lot. Speaker 1 Yeah. Speaker 1 I was talking to another family member the other day about loss and Speaker 1 how she's able to deal with it. Speaker 1 And what she told me was. Speaker 1 The only way to get through this pain is through the strength of Jesus. And I've really held on to that. My own strength isn't enough. It ran out long ago, but Speaker 1 knowing that the strength of Jesus can get me through makes it so much easier to deal with. Speaker 1 I have Speaker 1 grief, I have sadness, but I have Speaker 1 a sense of peace knowing that Jesus has this whole thing figured out. Speaker 2 That's the, Speaker 2 I think, the only thing that gets me through. Yeah. Speaker 1 And that and that he's accepted Jesus again and meaningfully. And he's living in that word at this end. It's beautiful. And it makes it honestly very easy to handle those things. Speaker 1 And for most of this time, I've looked at this as a gift. Speaker 1 I, I've been praying for more time every day. Yeah, I'm sure you have mom and everybody else, but I said that this is a gift because a lot of people don't get this. A lot of people don't get to come and say goodbye. Speaker 1 A lot of people don't get to say what's on their mind or what they needed to say. We've been given a special gift. He's still lucid, Speaker 1 so he understands who we are, what we're saying, and he says things back Speaker 1 I think that that's been a beautiful thing and gift that that God has given us. Speaker 1 that's part of our, Speaker 1 our faith, that we have to look at that as opposed to the negative and trying to look at all the positive things that have gone on through all this. This time. Yeah, it is hard. Yeah, it sucks, but Speaker 1 there's been so much. Speaker 1 Of the Holy Spirit over this entire process Speaker 1 that it's really been it's really been great and helpful to that to everyone. Speaker 1 I think. Speaker 1 So when I think about that daily grind where I'm tired and I can't think, I just come back to Matthew 1128 Speaker 1 When Jesus come to me, all you who are weary. And it's not a prayer. It's more just me showing up and saying, hey, I'm here. I'm really tired. Can you help me out? Speaker 2 Yeah. Just knowing that Speaker 2 he says he's going to take care of you. Go to him and just be there with him and he will take care of you. Speaker 1 And something else that's online. A lot. Speaker 1 As I was researching this was people talk about caregiver guilt and what it feels like when you when you take some time for yourself. Speaker 1 And Speaker 1 if you can do that you really need to do that. Yeah. And not not to get away from them. Just it recharges your battery right. It's hard I'm sitting here saying this and I'm tired and we probably need some time to ourself. Speaker 2 Well, neither of us want to leave. I don't want to. I don't want to go. Speaker 1 But you shouldn't feel guilty if you get to a point where you have to go. You have to just go to the grocery store and get away for a few minutes. There's nothing wrong with that. And you really shouldn't feel guilty. And it's a good way to to manage the stress in that so it doesn't spill over on others. Speaker 1 We've, Speaker 1 had disagreements more than normal. Yeah. It's just stress related frustration. Speaker 2 Well, there's there's physical there's physical exhaustion, and there's emotional exhaustion happening at the same time. Speaker 1 Oh, absolutely. Competing thoughts too with it. And it can be really hard to deal with. But Speaker 1 I would say if you have the opportunity, you shouldn't feel guilty about taking time yourself. That doesn't mean you should go on a two week vacation, Speaker 2 Go take an hour, go get your nails done, go to the grocery store Speaker 1 Yeah. You know, especially if you've got someone else that you that you trust that can they can be there for you and it's going to call you. You can drop whatever you're doing, rush back right. And you don't have to go far. Maybe you just need to walk around the block. Speaker 1 And when I talk about the living wake and all the influx of people coming in and out, I think about Speaker 1 Second Corinthians one four. Speaker 2 It says God comforts us so we can comfort others. And I can see that in these visits we're receiving comfort from our anchor in Christ. And it lets us hold space for everyone else's grief. Speaker 1 Absolutely. The Speaker 1 it that really Speaker 1 gives me some energy and helps me to manage Speaker 1 the emotions and the stress. Any time it gets bad enough, I have to just go away. Take a minute and read some of these. Some of these scriptures or just, honestly pray. I do a lot of that at night. Or when I get some alone time Speaker 1 And in Philippians four seven is what I think about Speaker 1 when he got baptized, that there's things that I was concerned with where I start feeling that peace. Can you read that for me? Speaker 2 And the peace of God, which transcends all understanding, will guard your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus. Speaker 1 And the big picture, the one that gets me through everything and the one that really we should all look to in this situation. Speaker 1 Isaiah 55. Speaker 2 This is the Speaker 2 definitely the main one that gets me through. It says for my thoughts are not your thoughts. Neither are your ways my ways declares the Lord. As the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts. I think about this every single day. Speaker 1 I do too, and we have to choose to trust that this is a painful process, but it's inside a story. God is telling. Speaker 2 A lot of the times. We're not going to know the reasons that he does things the way that he does things, but Speaker 2 when you trust in the Lord, you find peace in knowing that he has the best plans for our lives. And that's what you hold on to. Speaker 1 So I guess my advice to anyone in this situation would be to honor your parent. Speaker 1 Live in the scriptures that we just read, especially the Isaiah 55. Speaker 2 Lean in to God more. Speaker 1 And say what you need to say. Don't hold back. There's no reason to hold back at this point. Speaker 1 And Speaker 1 don't let this end and have any regrets. Make sure there are no regrets when it's all said and done. You're the ones going to have to live with them. So get everything out there. Yeah. Speaker 1 If you feel you need to say something say if you feel that you need to forgive them. By all means forgive them. Because when it comes down to this nothing that was done Speaker 1 20, 30, 50 years ago matters. In these moments where only matters is, is this moment and and their eternity in their soul, their peace and yours as well. Speaker 2 And just pray. Grab onto the hem of Jesus and don't let go. Speaker 2 Thank you so much for joining us today, everyone. I hope that you enjoyed and I hope that this helped. God bless.

Speaker 1 When you walk around with a heavy heart and tell your family you're fine, you're driving them crazy. Literally. Their gut tells them there's a problem, but your mouth tells them there's peace. Speaker 1 Yeah, this is the gap where anxiety lives. They start thinking they're the problem. They think they annoy you or you don't love them. Your silence doesn't make that pain disappear. Speaker 1 It makes your family question their own reality. You aren't being strong. You're actually being very weak. Speaker 1 You think you're protecting your family by swallowing your pain. And that's the biggest lie you ever told yourself. You're not protecting them. You're actually becoming a stranger to the people who need you the most. Speaker 2 That sounds harsh, because most people doing this are trying to be strong. They're trying to not let their past ruin their kids future or. Speaker 2 Turn it into their kids burden. Speaker 1 You know, your nervous system is like a Wi-Fi router. It's constantly broadcasting a signal to everybody in the room. And if your signals anger, it doesn't matter how much you try to keep it secure and locked away. Your kids, your partner, everybody in the family will automatically connect to it. They'll feel anxious, and they won't even know why. Speaker 1 Welcome back to For Loving Us, everybody. We've been away for a few weeks dealing with some family emergencies, but we are back now. Speaker 1 I'm Taylor and I'm Ryan. Speaker 2 It's good to be back. What are we talking about today? Speaker 1 We're actually going to talk about the buzzword of generational trauma, which wears me out. Speaker 2 I love that we're talking about this. Speaker 1 But we're going to look at three specific ways your unprocessed hurt is showing up in your house right now. And I was floored after we did the research and looking at some of the stories, how this has been going on for Speaker 1 since Adam and Eve, really. But we're going to start somewhere else. Speaker 2 and there's this misconception about generational trauma. What's being talked about is that Speaker 2 this trauma is carried in the womb, and you just automatically receive this trauma because you are or were born. Right. And that's not. Speaker 1 ridiculous Speaker 2 That's not true. So this is good that we're going over this today. Speaker 1 We're going to look at a biblical example of what happens when we disengage and endure. And the catastrophic effects it has on generations afterwards. Speaker 2 And by the end, we're going to show you how to move from hiding pain to bearing it the way that Jesus actually intended it. Speaker 1 Let's start with one of the most common symptoms numbness. We read in Ephesians four about hearts becoming hardened and losing sensitivity. Speaker 2 Okay, but wait. Speaker 2 Ephesians talks about lustful pleasure. The people that I'm talking about aren't out at the bar. They're just Speaker 2 quiet at home. They watch TV, they don't engage. It doesn't exactly feel like darkness. It feels like exhaustion, though. Speaker 1 But that exhaustion is often a cover. If you numb the pain, you numb the joy. You can't selectively shut down your emotions. Not acting out isn't the same as being healthy. So the spouse and the kids don't experience a peaceful mom dad home. They experience an absent one. Speaker 1 You’re physically present, but emotionally you've left the building. Speaker 1 You're a constant source of fear. You have everyone walking on pins and needles so they don't upset you or get in trouble. Speaker 1 And when you check out emotionally, the energy in the house has to go somewhere. If you don't process that pressure, it builds until the valve blows. Speaker 2 Okay, so this is where we talk about anger, because I know people who are quiet for months over something big, and then they explode over something simple like Speaker 2 your kid leaving a sock on the floor. Speaker 1 Or your spouse, right? Leaving dishes in the sink. Speaker 1 Okay, exactly though Proverbs 29:11 fools vent their anger, but the wise quietly hold it back. Speaker 2 Okay, see? It says, hold it back. That's what they're trying to do. Speaker 1 But the implication isn't repression, it's regulation. There's a massive difference between a dam holding back a flood and a river flowing in a channel. Speaker 1 When you repress trauma, you create a minefield. Your family is walking on eggshells not because you're yelling, but because they don't know when you're going to start yelling. That that crippling anxiety is the ripple effect. Speaker 2 The parent is trying to protect them, which is what we all want to do, but it's actually having the opposite effect. It's making the kids anxious. Speaker 2 Which is terrible. Speaker 1 And it gets worse because if you don't carry your own load somewhere else in the family instinctively picks it up. Not only are you not protecting them, you're actually giving it to them. Speaker 2 You mean the kids? Speaker 1 Exactly. Speaker 1 This is how we cause damage to the next generation. This is the parentified partner or child. Look, in Genesis 27, Isaac is passive, blind and checking out. He has unresolved favoritism and likely trauma from his own father, Abraham. Speaker 2 I think we need to talk about that. Speaker 2 We're going straight into one of the most dysfunctional family stories in the Bible. Isaac, Rebecca, Jacob and Esau. Speaker 2 this is a case study in inherited trauma. Speaker 1 Exactly. This is a story of how one man's unprocessed past silently causes his entire family's collapse. And you might be doing the exact same thing. Really, most of us are probably doing the exact same thing, so I'm not here to pass judgment. I am extremely guilty of a lot of this stuff myself. Speaker 1 Here's what it looks like. Broken down. Speaker 2 Okay, so Genesis 25:28 lays the groundwork here Speaker 2 very brutally. Isaac loved Esau, but Rebecca loved Jacob. So from the jump, this is a house divided two teams under one roof. Here. Speaker 1 Yeah. Now fast forward Isaac is all blind and he feels death is coming. He calls his favorite son Esau for a private meeting. His plan. Go hunt me some wild game. Cook it the way I love it, and I'll give you my final blessing before I die. He intentionally excludes Rebecca and Jacob. This isn't just a preference. It's a covert operation here. Speaker 2 Right But Speaker 2 Rebecca overhears this, panics and. Speaker 2 Masterminds a deception. She dresses Jacob and Esau’s clothes, covers his smooth skin with goat hides, and cooks the meal herself. Jacob walks in, lies to his father's face and presents the food. Speaker 1 And here's the detail Isaac is suspicious. He says. The voice is Jacob's voice, but his hands feel hairy, Speaker 1 and he smells Esau's, scent on his clothes. He ignores the truth. He heard his son's voice and trusts only what he can touch and smell. He blesses Jacob, thinking he's blessing Esau. Speaker 2 The moment that Esau walks in. Speaker 2 The horror sets in. Isaac trembles violently. The blessing Speaker 2 A legal and spiritual contract is irrevocable. Esau screams a raw, heartbreaking cry. Jacob has to flee for his life, becoming a refugee from his own family. In one afternoon, a home is shattered. Speaker 1 and the devastating irony Isaac's intention was to secure his favorite son's future. His action guaranteed that son's devastation and tore the family apart. His plan didn't just fail, it detonated. Speaker 1 So this isn't just a story about a bad decision. It's about the source of the decision to get the eyes that we got to go back, way back to a mountain with his father, Abraham. Speaker 1 In Genesis 22, Abraham binds a young Isaac on an altar, raises a knife, and is stopped at the last second by a substitute. a ram Speaker 1 Isaac isn’t an actor in the story. He's a passive object. His father's faith is tested and Isaac's life. Is the collateral. He's saved by a provision of meat. Speaker 2 And this imprints something deep in Isaac's psyche. Speaker 2 This is not something that gets talked about. We talk about the stories of the Bible Speaker 2 in the facts, but we don't talk about or think about how that person in the story actually Speaker 2 feels. I mean, your dad raises a knife to try and sacrifice you. You're probably going to hold some trauma from that right? Speaker 1 Probably. Speaker 2 So first, passivity, a learned helplessness. Big things happen to me. I don't shape them. Second, a sensory link between provision and survival, blessing, security. Life itself gets tangled with the taste of meat provided by another. That meat is what saved him. Speaker 1 Now watch the pattern play out decades later. His favoritism isn't quiet. It's reckless. He knows God said the older will serve the younger, yet he schemes against it. Why do we always try to go against what God plans? Speaker 2 I don't know, and then we think he won't notice. Speaker 1 These people knew Speaker 2 Right? Speaker 1 The plan. We don't always know what's going on. He actually knew the plan, right? He makes the entire, sacred blessing contingent on Speaker 1 a sensory trigger tasting that wild game and the moment of truth. He ignored the evidence of his ears. Speaker 1 His own son's voice pleading a lie and trusts that fake hair and that borrowed smell. Yeah. He wasn't. He had no discernment going on in that time. He knew it was Jacob. He chose to not Speaker 1 act on the discernment that he was getting. Speaker 2 Well, in a big part of it was the food. Speaker 1 There Speaker 1 the sensory trigger? Yes. Speaker 2 So he's not making a choice from a place of wholeness. He's being driven by an old, unhealed script. Security comes through the favorite, through the meal, through the sensory fix. Speaker 1 And here's the ripple effect. The trauma link that we've been talking about. Isaac's secret plan creates a vacuum of integrity. Rebecca isn't just being manipulative. She's forced into crisis mode because her husband Speaker 1 is operating in the dark. Jacob isn't just being deceptive. He's being weaponized by his mother to manage his father's dysfunction. Speaker 2 Dang. Speaker 2 That is the textbook definition of parentification. The child, Jacob, is forced out of his role as his son into the role of a pawn bearing the emotional weight of his parents, broken marriage and unresolved pain. Speaker 2 He becomes an actor in their sick play Speaker 1 And this is more of that generational trauma. It's a repetition of a family pattern. His father, Abraham, showed favoritism by exiling Ishmael. Isaac repeats that Speaker 1 and then he's got this unprocessed pain, his passivity and need for sensory provision. That's the food, the taste, because he was saved by this is, suggests a man stuck in a trauma loop seeking to control blessing through the palate because his own life was once spared through a divinely provided substitute. Speaker 1 Yeah, Speaker 1 and this is Speaker 1 creates this vacuum Speaker 1 that forces Rebecca into deception and Jacob into fraud. Speaker 1 We say Isaac has unresolved favoritism issues because the Bible shows him acting on that favorite favoritism secretly, recklessly, and sensorily to the point of ignoring God's Speaker 1 revealed will and triggering a family shattering sin. His behavior is a pivotal catalyst for the tragedy, making him a prime biblical case. Study in how unprocessed pain and familial bias creates a ripple effect of relational destruction. Speaker 2 Wow. Speaker 1 So we mentioned Isaac's passivity and learned helplessness. Speaker 2 Yes, it's a condition where a person believes they have no control over repeated adverse events, so they stop trying to change their situation even when opportunities arrive. Isaac's trauma I cannot control my father's knife. Isaac's coping strategy withdraw. Endure. Don't rock the boat. Isaac's dysfunction. He applies this to parenting and marriage, where active engagement, correction and leadership are required. Speaker 2 His passivity is not peace. It's an absence of necessary action. Speaker 1 He is definitely passive, Speaker 1 but because Isaac won't later communicate honestly, Rebecca has to step into this. She manipulates and Jacob becomes the tool of their dysfunction. Speaker 2 How unfair is that? Speaker 1 It really is. Speaker 2 Jacob is Speaker 2 forced to enact a deception to manage his parents brokenness. When you don't process your trauma, your children become actors in your play. They start managing your emotions. Instead of learning to manage their own. Speaker 2 This is damaging for everyone. But what do you do? Are you just supposed to dump all of your trauma on your family? Speaker 1 You can't. And that's where Galatians 6 comes in. Speaker 1 Galatians 6:2 says, bear one another's burdens. Speaker 2 But verse five says, each one shall carry their own load. Speaker 2 That sounds contradictory. Speaker 1 I can see that, but it's the answer. A load is like your daily backpack, your responsibility. A burden is a boulder or something too heavy for one person. The mistake is trying to carry the boulder alone because of our pride, or throwing the backpack at your family. The responsibility, our irresponsibility rather. Speaker 2 So the gospel solution is. Speaker 1 As always, you take the boulder to Christ first. Come to me, all who are weary. Then you invite your spouse to see the boulder, not to carry it for you, but to witness you carrying it with Jesus. Speaker 1 And this is so important when when your family, when they witness you carrying it with Jesus, they'll not only feel relief from all the anxiety you currently cause, but they'll learn to do the same thing when they have their own backpacks or own boulders. Speaker 1 You're going from trying to protect your family and harming them, to teaching them that the hero in the entire story is Jesus. And it was never you. This is the behavior they will emulate. Speaker 1 This is how the generational cycle is broken, and it is the only way. Speaker 2 It changes the definition of strength. Strength is not silence. Strength is clarity. Speaker 1 Exactly. Jesus wept. He got angry. He asked for help in the garden. He didn't hide his humanity to save the world. He used humanity to connect with it. Speaker 2 If you're listening and you feel that ripple effect in your home, stop trying to be a damn. Speaker 1 Here's your challenge for the week. Find one safe person, a counselor, a pastor, or a good friend. Or just pray to Jesus if you have no one else and say, I've been carrying something heavy and I thought I was protecting my family by hiding it, but I think I'm hurting them instead. Speaker 1 Okay, we went through a lot today, so I want to circle back and just touch on everything really quick. Okay, so if we are a person who loves their family but carries deep wounds and we feel this need to protect them from this darkness or these burdens that we're carrying, right? And Speaker 1 instead of adopting a strategy of being silent and repressing everything and well, I've got to move forward. Speaker 1 So that the atmosphere in the home ends up decaying. Speaker 1 Right. We need to realize that the family is carrying the weight anyways. There's nothing we can do right. And take that painful admission to God and say I'm not the hero are the story. I'm the source of all this anxiety. Please help me Speaker 1 bringing that burden to Christ in a safe community is biblical. Speaker 1 Like we write in Galatians 6 and know that the change is a vulnerability replacing silence, the ripple changes from anxiety to healing. Speaker 2 Yeah. Speaker 1 And because Isaac didn't do this. Speaker 1 He never processes unresolved issues. Guess who now has them. Speaker 1 His kids Jacob specifically his unresolved issues are a need to manipulate outcomes. His painful history of rivalry, his inability to love his children equally, create the perfect storm. And we will get into that next week. Speaker 1 So if you like this, this helps you. Or if you really feel this let us know or check out any of the videos on the screen right now. Speaker 1 Thank you for joining us. Speaker 2 I hope you guys all have a great day. God bless.

Speaker 1 What’d did you ask me? Speaker 2 I said, what exactly did God say to you to get here? Speaker 1 Well, this is a very important part of our life. Speaker 2 I don't think it is. Speaker 1 Your bipolar disorder is an extremely important part of our life, and how we function, and how I operate on a daily basis, and how you operate on. Speaker 2 How you operate on a daily basis. And what do you mean? Speaker 1 Well, I have to be aware. Speaker 1 I have to watch what's going on. Speaker 1 I have to look for any red flags that come on. It's not like you're going to get a fever one day and all of a sudden. Here we go. Speaker 1 It's going to come on. Speaker 1 Pretty rapidly if you're not looking at us going to come on like overnight Speaker 1 okay. Speaker 2 But when everything's fine it's fine. And it's not something that we have to like Speaker 2 worry about every single day. Do you think. Speaker 1 It's an every day. Speaker 2 Well, yes. Speaker 1 But there's something we have to worry about every day. Speaker 2 Okay. But it's not like it's that big of a part of our life. It's in the background. Speaker 1 It's in your background. It is not in my background. Speaker 2 I had no idea. Speaker 1 Yes, I it is something that I do like is part of, like a daily inventory. Speaker 1 I do it every day. Speaker 2 It sounds a little bit dramatic to me. Speaker 1 But it's not really. I mean, it's a Speaker 1 it's something you can't control and Speaker 1 while I've asked you before to say something. When you feel like things are off you have. But that doesn't always happen that way. Speaker 1 This is the first time we've gotten this far in it since your last episode. Speaker 1 But there have been other times where I've seen things or caught things ahead of time and headed off at the pass. I'm very well written as I did. I read for months about this afterwards. Speaker 2 Okay, but I don't. Speaker 2 I don't feel the way that I did last time. Speaker 1 Right. Because you didn't get there or you're not there yet. We've just really started the process of kind of climbing over the slope Speaker 1 and looking down the hill. Speaker 1 But what I'm saying is let's just keep walking this path instead of going down the hill. Speaker 2 Right. Speaker 1 But there's only one way to do that and that is to take interventions. Speaker 2 Right. But I just mean every single day. It's not it's not at the forefront of my day. I try not to think about it. Speaker 1 I think I don't think you should. I don't think that's a good thing. Actually, I think you should live your life Speaker 1 how you live it. And I my job is to watch out for certain things and keep you safe and keep us safe. And that's part of part of the job. Speaker 2 Well, that's nice of you to do. Speaker 1 Are there not things about me that you pay attention to and you look out for? Speaker 2 Yeah. Speaker 1 There are even every day maybe. Speaker 1 So it's no different really. You just don't want to face this. Speaker 2 Right. If only everybody could see how I'm looking at you right now. Speaker 1 Please don't cut my head off. Speaker 1 Why we're talking about this today Speaker 1 is because we had a family health crisis. And over the last couple of weeks, which is why we haven't been recording also. And welcome to for liveness. I'm Ryan. Speaker 2 I'm Taylor. Speaker 1 Got that out of the way. And during that time. Speaker 1 It caused Taylor, who suffers from bipolar as we know, to have a lot of sleep disruptions in her schedule. People with bipolar really thrive off consistent sleep. Speaker 1 Consistent schedules really, if possible. But consistent sleep, and usually more than the rest of us, need. Speaker 2 People to understand how much I need my sleep. I think they just think I'm like, oh, she likes to sleep a lot. They don't take it seriously. Speaker 1 They do. And we joke about you even joke about it. But it's not lost on me for sure. Speaker 1 When this family emergency happened you were forced to get up early. And incidentally it's been the holidays so we were both going to bed a lot later. Right. And that started a Speaker 1 chain reaction of events for you. Speaker 1 Physiologically that would lead us to a bipolar full fledged episode. That coupled with the anticipation of what could happen during this emergency. Luckily things are going really well right now. But there's still the anticipation of that change for somebody that you're really close with. Speaker 1 Yeah. Speaker 1 So it creates a like a high stakes an internal mental threat for you. Speaker 1 And Speaker 1 that forces me to develop a plan. And I saw this, I prayed about it and I got confirmation from a Speaker 1 heavenly angel. This close to the situation. Just making sure seeing if I was aware because there's been times that I have not been aware of things. Speaker 1 And I look deeper into it because I can't, Speaker 1 I can't watch you 24 hours a day, seven days a week. Speaker 1 And it's good to have multiple people involved to just come and say, hey Speaker 1 do you see anything here. Or I saw I noticed this. Are you seeing this? And most of the time it's. No, but I really appreciate having someone else to, like, look at things as well. Different perspectives. Speaker 1 So as we are dealing with a family emergency. Speaker 1 I started to notice you slide. And I've noticed it for. Speaker 1 As I look back, probably a couple of weeks, which is about how long this has been going on, maybe about a month. Speaker 1 And little things like your irritability, aggressive driving, Speaker 1 Decreased appetite. Speaker 1 Just lots of things that you do when we're headed down that path. Sometimes it's one thing here or one thing there. I don't worry much about it. But when it's a bunch of things together, I start to get concerned. Speaker 1 So a couple of days ago, I sat you down. Speaker 1 Three days ago now I sat you down and I started to talk to you about it. And do you remember Speaker 1 any part of that conversation. I hope you do. Do you remember what I said. I started it. Speaker 2 That, Speaker 2 I'm having a hard time with Speaker 2 the events that have been going on within our family. Speaker 1 Yeah. Well, actually, what I said was, this is a hard time for all of us. And wording is important because Speaker 1 we all do this. We hear what we want to hear, not what we actually hear. So had I been Speaker 1 accusatory towards you that would have just been a bigger problem for you emotionally. Added more stress to you emotionally. Speaker 1 But I was acknowledging I was really naming what's going on. I already knew where we were headed. So it was important to name the problem. Speaker 1 Like it says in first Peter five through eight. Speaker 1 Where he talks about being sober minded and looking out for the predator, looking out for the problems. And you're just being prudent. Speaker 1 It's my job to be prudent and to bear your burdens. We're supposed to bear each other's burdens. Speaker 1 You bear mine, I bear yours. Our parents bear our bear. Like, this is just how it's supposed to work. Speaker 1 And it's. And it's backed by scripture. Speaker 1 How did you feel? And I brought it up to you. Speaker 2 Definitely relieved. Speaker 2 Because Speaker 2 you were mentioning things to me like irritability Speaker 2 over the last couple of weeks. Speaker 2 You can come off in my eyes a little harsh sometimes, Speaker 2 but Speaker 2 if I'm trying to be strong for you and you keep asking me what's wrong? Are you okay? Speaker 2 And to me, it just feels like I'm just tired and sad. Speaker 2 I'm tired. I haven't gotten my normal sleep. Speaker 2 I'm sad because of what's going on. Speaker 2 That's what's wrong. Speaker 1 Yeah, and the fact is that Speaker 1 the stress, the lack of sleep, Speaker 1 it's just a perfect recipe to send you into a spiral. And it's not even your fault. And a lot of people will blame people. Oh you just need to suck it up. There's more important things. This isn't about you. On a normal day, that might be what anybody told you. Speaker 1 But because I had been seeing this going on and then I got Speaker 1 confirmation from my heavenly angel, I knew that we needed to address this, but not in an accusatory way. And hey, I see you. I think this is what we're dealing with. Speaker 1 I also told you that Speaker 1 I didn't need you to be strong for me. Which backtracked. Speaker 1 I actually did say that I misspoke a few weeks earlier and told you I needed due to be strong for me, but really to keep me in line, not to hold everything in. Yeah. And so that was a mistake on my part. Speaker 2 So because you're dealing with making sure that everybody else's is okay. Speaker 1 Yes. I'm, I'm trying this current situation requires me to be the rock, which is fine. I'm good with that. Speaker 1 I'm trained for this. This is what I do. Speaker 1 But, Speaker 1 a fault that I have is I'm not really great at multitasking these types of things. I get Speaker 1 I would say television, but I get very intensively Speaker 1 focused in on the current situation and I'll stick it there until it's resolved. Speaker 1 Yeah. Speaker 1 But now I've got two major things going on, Speaker 1 and I'm trying to make sure that nothing bad happens to you because you being strong for me means being healthy. Yeah. If I don't have to worry about you because you're healthy, it makes other things a lot easier for me. But. Speaker 1 I'm still going to be worried about you anyways. Speaker 1 So it's my job to make sure that you're getting sleep. So the first thing I did was Speaker 1 I started to get you back to a consistent sleep schedule. Speaker 2 Right? Speaker 1 Letting you sleep till you're supposed to sleep. Speaker 1 Getting you to bed on time. You like to go to sleep early, so making sure that happens. Speaker 1 I give you your meds, so making sure that you take those like you're supposed to. Speaker 2 Well, and even just asleep has already helped. Speaker 1 For sure. Speaker 1 I nursed the appetite thing as well a few weeks ago, and. Speaker 1 We know you have eating disorder issues, but you're very consistent with your food, right? You eat. You don't seem to have a huge problem with it from a day to day basis. Speaker 2 Yeah. Speaker 1 And when you don't eat, it's a huge red flag. To me. That's usually the very first thing that jumps out to me is you're not eating. Speaker 2 Yeah. Well, definitely. If I start feeling super anxious, super stressed, super sad that that's a huge thing. I mean, it's not even anything that I'm doing on purpose. My stomach just hurts so bad. I have no appetite. Speaker 1 Did you feel this coming on at all? Speaker 2 Well, I just thought I was tired. Speaker 1 Even after I said something bad. Speaker 2 I mean, I still think that there is a part of you that might be being a little bit dramatic in this. Speaker 1 Definitely not. Speaker 1 But this is the normal response. Speaker 2 I mean, if I'm being completely honest, I don't think that we're at the point to make this Speaker 2 much of a fuss about it. Speaker 1 No, but I think the point is to not get it to that point. Speaker 2 Well, I know, but I told you a lot. I'm. I'm tired. I'm tired and I'm sad. Speaker 1 Which are the two biggest things that can trigger an episode. Speaker 2 So get me some sleep. We're on the up path with our family health. Speaker 1 Yes. Speaker 2 Situation? Yes. So those problems are alleviating. Speaker 1 I'm glad you feel that way. I think that they are. But I don't think it's because of lack of intervention or not making deals out of things. Speaker 2 Whatever you say. Speaker 1 You see the irritability. Speaker 1 We're right in the middle. This just started. This is literally three days old. Speaker 1 That I brought this to you. Speaker 1 But we had to name the issue. We had a name that there's a problem. Speaker 2 Yes. And if you don't mean the issue there's, there's no way to fix it. Speaker 1 And there's no nothing that you can fight against. You can't fight against is what they say. Speaker 2 Right. Speaker 1 Last time you had an episode, I did not catch it. I should have caught it. I should have known, but I didn't. And so I had no idea what was going on. I was throwing everything but the kitchen sink at it, trying to fix it, and I could not figure out what was going on Speaker 1 until all of a sudden Speaker 1 it just hit me like a ton of bricks. Speaker 1 And I felt terrible because I didn't recognize it a lot earlier. Speaker 2 Well, that's not your fault. Speaker 1 Well, I won't let it happen again. I assure you, it won't happen because I didn't try to make sure that everything was okay. Speaker 2 Yeah. Speaker 1 I mean, we have a choice in this. I can. Speaker 1 Let you. Speaker 1 Figure it out. Let you go through it, and then hit us like a ton of bricks. And we pick up the pieces literally later. Yeah. Or we just stop it before it hits. And I think this is the way to go. I would rather be wrong. Speaker 1 Right. Speaker 2 Yeah. That's true. Speaker 1 So we name the threat. We saw the storm clouds gathering. But spotting that storm doesn't stop the rain. You've got to board up the windows. Speaker 1 And this is where some people disagree. They say oh you just have faith and everything will work out. But James 217 says can you read that real fast. Speaker 2 Yeah. So also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead. Speaker 1 Right. And that's the important part. Faith without works is dead. You've got to move your feet. You've got to do something sometimes. Speaker 2 Right? Speaker 1 God gave us the authority, the ability, the wisdom, the discernment to see all these things happening. And sometimes, as in Speaker 1 the case with your bipolar, the training with a with an episode prior, right? Speaker 1 What gets hard for you Speaker 1 in this time seems to be Speaker 1 accepting it and stepping back a little bit, because when you get like this, you actually tend to step forward Speaker 1 You take a role that is not really normal, which completely throws me for a loop as well. Speaker 2 Can you elaborate? Speaker 1 Well, Speaker 1 even with your irritability, even just the way you drive them, there's little things. And then there's there's big things. You. Speaker 1 Seem to try to take more of a leading role. Yeah. In situations that you should take a backseat. Speaker 2 Yeah. Speaker 1 And honestly, in situations where you should take a leading role, you tend to do the opposite and take the backseat. Speaker 1 you're completely Speaker 1 a Speaker 1 different person. Speaker 1 When you're going through an episode or even when you're beginning Speaker 1 to. Yeah. But I think it's important to know that Speaker 1 once we Speaker 1 recognize what's going on, if we can intervene and take steps. Speaker 1 We can stop it dead in its tracks. And I think that's important. Speaker 1 It's not just another. Oh here we go again. And just. Speaker 2 let it. Speaker 1 Happen and brace for the worst because that's what happens. Speaker 2 Right. Speaker 1 You have all kinds of weird stuff going on as I think most people do. But you're so completely out of character, like you're a very laid back, chill person. When this is going on, you are Speaker 1 completely out. It's so crazy. And it's I mean like a lot of people, you break stuff, you do things that just aren't you. Speaker 2 Yeah. Speaker 1 And you don't really know what's going on. Speaker 1 I was amazed last time because I could see that you were fighting it. Yeah. But it had such a grip on you that there was not much you could do. Speaker 2 Right. Speaker 1 Yeah. That made me sad, actually, to see you fighting and not being able to. To win your battle. Speaker 2 Oh, I remember one thing that you said to me last time. Or we we discussed this. I would yell at you and tell you to leave. Yeah. And then as soon as you would leave, I would freak out and cry and beg you to come back. Speaker 1 Yeah. That's the. Speaker 1 Sounds a lot like multiple personalities, which I actually at one point thought that we might be dealing with something like that. Speaker 1 But. Speaker 1 There is a trap with this. You can make all the plans, make all the meals, Speaker 1 shield you from all the bad stuff. Speaker 1 But Speaker 1 if you're guilty, if I'm guilty and holding guilt from the last time I'm getting probably lose, I'm going to probably fail. Yeah. But I've got to trust in, in God and in the word now a lot more than I had the. Speaker 1 And I didn't have the same relationship as I do now. But believe to me, I was praying like crazy, Speaker 1 like crazy. I was in the word. I was begging for help. Absolutely. And I think I got help. You were just outside help. Right. That I didn't know but he sent it. I just didn't recognize it until much later. Speaker 1 Yeah. But he's always there for us even if we're not there for him. He seems to always be there for us. Speaker 1 Can you read Philippians two for for me real fast. Speaker 2 Yes, I can. Speaker 1 Because doing all this extra work can be exhausting for any caregiver. Doing just someone with bipolar, let alone multiple people at one time. Speaker 1 I mean, I've got to sometimes if we had 2 or 3 kids in the home, two, it would be even harder. Speaker 2 Yeah. Philippians two four says, let each of you look not only to his own interests, but also to the interests of others. Speaker 1 And that's important because I think a lot of times. Speaker 1 We. Speaker 1 Put ourselves on the backburner for other people, but not in the right way. We we look at it as we're being a martyr or murdering for them. We're, Speaker 1 we're we're doing so much for you. I'm doing all of these things for you without ever really realizing what's going on with that person. Speaker 1 as a parent Speaker 1 I can think of a ton of times or I've. Speaker 1 put myself on the backburner for my kids, but it's oh it's me doing that right. It's, it has nothing to do with the fact that you're my child and I want to do it. Speaker 2 Yeah. Speaker 1 And it's just sometimes it's the heat of the moment. Right? I think this happens a lot when you're a caregiver. You get caught up so much in doing that that you forget about your own self too. And you do have to take care of yourself, which I'm doing. Speaker 1 I'm staying, Speaker 1 in the word and praying and asking for strength. Speaker 1 I'm getting this. The normal amount of sleep that I get, like, I don't need as much as you. Speaker 2 Yeah, and Speaker 2 taking care of others, but also having humility about it. Speaker 1 Yes. Actually, that's a really good point. That means not trying to be a martyr for everybody, right? Speaker 2 Exactly. Speaker 1 For me, I have to do all this, and I have to do all that. Speaker 2 You do it because you want to, and you do it out of the goodness of your. Speaker 1 And because you love them. Speaker 1 So we named our issue. Which was Speaker 1 bipolar. Speaker 2 Right. Speaker 1 And we we claimed it. Speaker 1 By saying Speaker 1 we've got this insight and we, but we still need to do something with it. Right. And Speaker 1 here's some scriptures to help us with it. Knowing this is the right path to do things. But there's a third step that I like to do. Speaker 1 And it's the frame. It is really it's name it, claim it, frame it. Speaker 1 This is actually the same framework we use for Speaker 1 the FORLOVENESS Circles and most everything else we do. Yeah. Speaker 1 And I think for this it comes down to Speaker 1 when I get tired in my current role. So this becomes more about me. Speaker 2 Yeah. Speaker 1 When I'm tired because Speaker 1 I'm burnout from making sure that the family members taking care of, making sure you're taking care of making sure I'm taking care of Speaker 1 So Speaker 1 I, I never say personally it's unfair to do all these things. I think it's a great honor to do these things. Speaker 1 So, Speaker 1 it's it's fulfilling a Law of Christ. Right. Can you read Galatians six two for me? Speaker 2 Yeah. It says, bear one another's burdens and so fulfill the law of Christ. Speaker 1 And that's how I've always taken it when I was a firefighter. When I like taking care of people, I feel if you're strong and capable. Physically and mentally, that you should use those gifts to help others. Speaker 2 Right. Speaker 1 I feel everyone should use their gifts to help other people, actually. But, not everyone does. Some people use it for themselves, and that's important here, is that we don't Speaker 1 see ourselves as a martyr. We see ourselves as fulfilling the law of Christ. But it can get tiring. And I'm not tired yet, but it can get tiring. Speaker 1 And I've carried this one with me for for a long time. Ever since I was actually a little kid. Speaker 1 And that's Philippians 413. That is, I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me. I actually use that for this type of thing, but I even use it when I'm working out in the mornings. If I get tired or if I want to cut a set out. Yeah. I still actually use it even then. And I know I have another family member who uses that as well. Speaker 1 She was dealing with a loss, and she share with me that she gets through it through the strength of Jesus. Right? And that hit me really hard, because whenever we struggle with anything, that's how we can fix it. Speaker 1 I know that, Speaker 1 everyone's heard that and everybody, Speaker 1 puts it on their eye. Black in the football games or whatever. Speaker 1 But this is really what gets me through the hard days. Speaker 2 Yeah I Speaker 2 remember I think about this from time to time. I had a family member Speaker 2 going through a really hard thing. And this was years ago. Speaker 2 And Speaker 2 I said, well, God wouldn't put you through something that you couldn't handle. And he said, well, actually, it doesn't say that anywhere in the Bible. And as I've gotten closer in my relationship with God and, Speaker 2 I've come to realize that I was wrong. God would put you through things that you can't handle. And that's the entire point. Speaker 2 He wants you to use his strength and run to him so that he can handle it. Speaker 1 You're right. Everybody does say that he won't put you through anything you can handle, but he does. Speaker 1 And that's how we should be framing how we how we survive the sacrifice. It's speaking God's reality over our own exhausted reality. It's the truth that allows the rock to be the rock without crumbling. Speaker 1 So the framework we're working with here is we have to name the threat. Speaker 1 Claim the ground with practical love. And then frame the struggle with biblical truth. Speaker 1 And that moves us from passive victims of a situation to active watchful stewards of each other and turns panic into a plan so we can get through it. Not our plan though. Speaker 1 God's plan. Speaker 2 Right. Speaker 1 And this isn't just for bipolar or other health scares. This is for a parent caring for a sick child. This is for anyone supporting a spouse through depression or illness, or anyone watching a loved one struggle with addiction, name the converging pressures. Claim the next right action and frame it with the truth of Christ's strength. Speaker 1 I think that's it. Speaker 1 That's good. Speaker 2 Thank you for joining us today. I hope you have a great day. God bless.

Speaker 1 Hello, everyone. Welcome back to FORLOVENESS I'm Taylor. Speaker 2 I'm Ryan. Speaker 1 Today we're going to be talking about cortisol what it actually does and how to fix it. Speaker 1 People are exhausted. They're gaining weight. They can't sleep. Their brains feel like static. And the advice is always the same. Just manage your stress. But what if they've already tried? Speaker 2 Yeah, most of them have. They've changed their diets. They're working out. They're trying to do all the right things, and their body still feels like it's falling apart. That's not a motivation problem. It's not a mindset issue. It's a misfire in the system. Speaker 1 So what's actually going on? Speaker 2 Their brains still think something's wrong, even if nothing is. And when the signal stays active for too long, it starts to change everything. You sleep, you gain weight, mood, focus. It doesn't shut off on its own. You have to interrupt it. Speaker 1 So what keeps that stuck? Why won't it shut off? Speaker 2 It's unfinished stress. Pain. They never processed scenarios. They keep running in their head. The body reacts like it's happening again, even when it's just a thought, it cannot tell the difference. Speaker 1 But if they know it's over, why does the body still act like it's not? Speaker 2 Because the body doesn't follow logic. It follows signals. And if the signal says danger, the response never resets. So you could tell yourself I'm fine all day, but if your brain doesn't believe it, nothing's going to change. Speaker 1 So Speaker 1 they're stuck in stress without even realizing it. Speaker 2 Exactly. They've been in it for so long, they started calling it normal. Tired all the time. Can't focus. Always on edge. And they blame themselves. They go to the doctor and they get medications that don't fix it. They go to therapy. It doesn't work. Speaker 1 So when supplements don't work, the routines don't work. Speaker 1 Is it because none of those things are actually reaching the source? Speaker 2 Yeah. You can't fix a chemical response with a pep talk. You can't. Sounds a stress loop with distractions. Discipline. You have to change the signal the brain is responding to you. Most people have no idea how to do that because no one's ever taught them. It's not their fault. Speaker 1 So what does that look like? Speaker 2 Well, first we gotta get clear on why all the common fixes fall flat. Speaker 2 Then we get into how to change the inputs of the body, and finally let go. Speaker 1 So if somebody has been trying to fix this diet, sleep supplements, meditation, why isn't anything working? Speaker 2 Because those things don't reach the cause. They're targeting cortisol. Like it's the problem. Cortisol is not the problem. It's a hormone. It's part of your design. It regulates blood sugar metabolism, inflammation, even your memory. It spikes when your brain perceives a threat, real or made up. It doesn't matter. The issue isn't the hormone. It's the chronic false signal that keeps it elevated. Speaker 1 So are the people selling like those cortisol blockers just wrong? Speaker 2 Absolutely. They're wrong. They're they're either misinformed or they're selling something they know won't solve the issue. Speaker 2 There's no such thing as a healthy, healthy person with zero cortisol. You'd be dead. Blocking cortisol doesn't fix anything. It just shuts down the warning light while the engine keeps overhead overheating. The signal is still there. The system still jammed. Speaker 1 Okay, but what about all the people selling powders and patches in their routines to just fix your stress? Everybody swears they have the answer. Speaker 2 Yeah, and most of their followers are still sick, exhausted and anxious. There's no patch powder or playlist skin to tell your brain the threats over. And that's the only thing that ends the cortisol loop. You can dim the lights, Speaker 2 light the candles, do your lymphatic massages. But none of that speaks to the part of your brain that's responsible for fear and safety. Speaker 2 You're managing symptoms. You're not changing the signal. Speaker 1 So it's not that these things are harmful, it's just that they're distractions. Speaker 2 Exactly. So if your house is flooded and you start rearranging the furniture, it might feel productive. But it's not solving the problem. That's when these surface level routine, that's what these surface level routines are. You get a little comfort, a short term mood bump, but nothing in your biology changes. The flood continues. Speaker 1 Okay, but honestly, some of those things do help people feel calmer in the moment. Doesn't that make them still useful? Speaker 2 Well, temporary relief isn't transformation. Yeah, some of those things may lower your heart rate or ease the edge. But if the source signal doesn't shift, you'll keep chasing calm every single day because your body keeps defaulting to not safe. That's not peace. That's survival. Speaker 1 Okay, then. So why isn't it working? People have done everything clean eating, therapy, long walks, affirmations, prayer journals, ice baths, breathwork. They're exhausted. They're not lazy. They're trying and they're still stuck. So what's the truth? Speaker 2 The truth is, none of that works. It's the message underneath it all still says I'm not safe. If you could track your sleep and drink your greens, lift weights, light candles. But if that core signal hasn't changed, your body's still responding like you're under threat. Speaker 2 That's not a mindset thing. It's wiring. It's your brain wiring. Speaker 1 Okay, then all these supplements, ashwagandha, adaptogens, cortisol balancers. What is everybody doing? Speaker 2 You're putting tape over a check engine light. Basically, cortisol is not the enemy. It is not toxic or mistake. It's doing exactly what it's designed to do. Cortisol responds to orders, and the command that most people are running is stay alert, stay guarded. You're not safe yet. An Intel that gets corrected. That loop's going to continue. You swallow the whole pharmacy but you're still not going to fix it. Speaker 1 So all of these experts that are pushing blockers and fixers, they're wrong. Speaker 2 Yeah. At best they're misinformed. At worst Speaker 2 They're selling to people who are desperate enough to believe it. You don't block cortisol. You resolve the reason it's elevated. Anything else is a distraction that keeps people sick while promising relief. Speaker 1 So none of these solutions are actually real solutions. Speaker 2 I'm saying if they don't change the signal, they don't solve the problem. That's not opinion, that's biology. There's tons of studies that prove this. You can't out supplement a body that's still getting told it's in danger. Can you imagine if you were able to shut this off and a knife wielding ax murderer came running at you, and you just you just didn't. Speaker 1 Report this all didn't work because you're all these blockers. Speaker 2 This is responsible for your fight and flight response. Speaker 1 Yeah, it's a fight. Speaker 2 Or you run the other way. And if there's an ax murderer, I recommend you run the other way. Speaker 1 Usually it sounds like a really important hormone to have that you don't want blocked. Speaker 2 It is absolutely critical to us Speaker 1 So then what ends? What tells the body you're safe now? It's over. It's. It can stop at this moment. Speaker 2 There's only one thing it's not, Speaker 2 it's not for sale, and it's not trendy. And it's not going to get you a bunch of likes, but it's the. It's the one action your brain recognizes as truth. It doesn't bypass the fear. It replaces it. Speaker 2 And when you do it, the system resets. Speaker 1 Why don't people know about this? Speaker 2 Because this world profits off your panic. If you wake up calm, you stop buying. If you stop scrolling for the next fix, they lose. Because this method doesn't just make you feel better, it makes you free and free. People don't buy their way to peace. They live it. Unfortunately, most live in that live. Speaker 1 Let's go back to that loop. Actually, we talked about it last week. Replay, rehearse, justify and protect. Does that cycle ever end? Speaker 2 Not unless the situation is resolved. The brain can't handle open cases. Same reason it can't handle a cliffhanger at the end of your favorite show. It's wired to come back to unresolved tension. It keeps circling the story, waiting for closure, waiting for a new signal. And when it doesn't get one, it builds its own pattern around the pain. Speaker 1 So it just keeps looping. Speaker 2 Yeah, but here's the shift. There's a way to lock the loop, not erase the memory. Not forget what happened, but lock it so it no longer controls your life. I say lock instead of closed on purpose, because sometimes that memory will need to be accessed again. But when it's locked, it's not driving the system anymore. Speaker 2 I was explaining this to somebody the other day and think of it like this. Speaker 2 The child wakes up from a nightmare, convinced there's something under the bed, and they scream for help. The fear is real for them and it's all somewhat something changes, their bodies reacting like the threat is real, right? Speaker 2 But then their dad walks in, checks under the bed, checks the closet, looks him in the eye and said there's nothing here. You're safe. That moment, that transfer of trust from fear to someone stronger. That's what locks that live. They're not faking calm. They're they've received peace because someone came in and carried that fear for them. And that's what happens. Speaker 2 Any time a child is fearful, they call in their parent, their mom or their dad, and they immediately release that to them and accept and receive that their parent is going to handle it. Yeah, that's exactly what I'm talking about here. Speaker 1 Yeah, that that makes so much sense. Speaker 1 But how does that work for me and everybody else? Most of us are dealing with stuff away deeper than monsters under the bed. Speaker 2 Yeah, the same pattern applies. The body only lets go of, fear response when it receives something stronger than fear. Speaker 2 But before we talk about that, we need to look at what's happening inside because most people don't even realize how deep they're in it or what it's doing to their brain. Speaker 2 The first part of the loop is replay. Your mind keeps going back to what happened. You're not reflecting. You're stuck. Speaker 2 Same thoughts, same emotions. Same spike in your chest. You're not getting new insight. You're just reliving the damage and the body treats that like it's happening again. Speaker 2 Not a memory, a threat. You're reliving that trauma and your body feels like it's actually happening just by thinking about it. Speaker 1 Wow. Speaker 1 So the pain doesn't fade because it's still being fed. Speaker 2 Exactly. And that's when we come to the rehearse part. Speaker 2 You start preparing for the next time, not because you want to, but because your brain doesn't trust the world anymore. So it starts scanning, preparing, arming itself. You don't feel safe, so it builds a defense. Speaker 2 But the more you do that, the harder it is to ever stand down. Speaker 2 You're you're actually building these pathways in your brain. Your brain structure is changing, and you're doing it by reliving this over and over. Speaker 1 So then your brain just gets stuck in that preparation mode, Speaker 1 even when there's nothing happening. Speaker 2 Absolutely. But it goes even deeper. The next part of that loop is the justification. You start needing the pain to make sense. You look for reasons, you try to explain what happened, why it wasn't your fault, why you should never have trusted them. It feels like clarity, but it's just another way that pain tightens the grip. Speaker 2 because the more you try to prove it matters the harder it is to let go. Speaker 2 You're just reinforcing Speaker 2 the pain that the trauma, the pain that someone else caused you. Speaker 1 Wow. Yeah. And then the last one. Speaker 2 That's the protection part. This is when your brain turns that moment into a rule. You stop seeing it as something that happened and start seeing it as how life works. Speaker 2 Now. People can't be trusted. Letting go means you'll get hurt again. It's better to stay safe, guarded. Better to stay angry. You tell yourself it's safer that way, but it's not safe. It's exhausting. And that loop becomes how you live. Speaker 2 It also dictates this loop will dictate how you treat every single person in your circle. They always say, oh, we always hurt the ones we love. Speaker 2 That's because they're the ones closest to us and we're we, we trying sometimes to protect them from our own trauma. And this just is a big snowball effect. This is why we don't let our kids go outside, because we know what can happen out there, because it happened to us. It doesn't mean it's going to happen to them. Speaker 2 Yeah. We hope Speaker 1 And then while you're living in fear, you're now Speaker 1 projecting that onto somebody else, and then they're going to start living in fear. Speaker 2 Absolutely. Speaker 1 Okay. So nothing else works. The loop is real. The brain is stuck. What do I do? Speaker 2 You stop carrying it. Speaker 2 Yeah. Sounds easy right? Speaker 1 Explain. Speaker 2 You've been carrying something you were never meant to hold the memory, the pain, the need for them to pay, the fear. It'll happen again. You've been carrying it, and your body's been reacting like it's still happening. So you put it down, you hand it off. Speaker 1 All right, so the loop is real. The fixed is are fake. You're saying the only way out is to hand it off? That sounds spiritual. Maybe even naive. Where's the proof? This does anything physical. Speaker 2 It's already here. Let's start with stress. You know that feeling tight? Chest, heart pounding. Can't think. That's your amygdala firing, your cortisol flooding. Okay, Speaker 2 a clinical trial took people and had them pray. Not chant. Pray. Speaker 2 They measured their saliva. Speaker 2 Their cortisol levels dropped significantly. Their blood pressure went down, their heart rate slowed, and their bodies panic button got quieter. Speaker 1 okay. That's one study. Cortisol can drop from deep breathing too. That's not proof of anything special. Speaker 2 Then let's talk about the brain itself. Not just chemicals. It's actual structure. Speaker 1 Okay. Speaker 2 Doctor Andrew Newberg did this study, and he put people in brain scanners. He had them pray, just talk to God, hand things over for 12 minutes a day. After eight weeks, he scanned them again, and the results weren't subtle. The anterior cingulate cortex, the part of your brain that handles empathy, emotional control, your sense of safety. It got physically thicker, more active prayer. Speaker 2 Just calm them. It rebuilt the part of their brain that gives them peace. Speaker 1 Wow. Speaker 1 That's crazy. That's huge. Speaker 1 They literally grew the part of the brain that shuts down under stress. Speaker 1 But that's still just one doctor's work. So what about the fear center? Speaker 2 Same study while the Peace center grew. The amygdala. That's the alarm system. The one that is is sending the signal to the adrenal glands that sit above the kidneys to release that cortisol, the amygdala got quieter. Its activity measurably decreased. Speaker 2 But let's go bigger. Harvard. Everybody loves Harvard Studies, right? Speaker 2 A 16 year study. Over 74,000 women, they tracked who went to church, who worshiped, who prayed. The women who attended services weekly had a 33% lower risk of dying during that period, 33% not just feeling better, living longer. Speaker 1 Wow. Okay. Hold on. That could be community. That could be social support, healthy habits. Speaker 1 You can't pin that all on prayer, can you? Speaker 2 Well, good thing I did a lot of research because they controlled for that. They factor out smoking, depression, social networks and the effect held Speaker 2 But let's talk about despair another Harvard study. Speaker 2 That they looked at deaths of despair suicide overdose. People who worshiped weekly had a 68% lower risk, 68%. Speaker 1 Wow. Oh my gosh that's crazy. Speaker 2 The researchers conclusion faith isn't a crutch. It's an antidote. It physically protects the brain and body from the collapse that comes from carrying unbearable weight. Speaker 1 Okay. Wow. Speaker 1 So the data says prayer physically changes the brain. It lowers stress, chemicals. It can extend your life. It protects against despair. But that's all correlation. It's people who already believe. What about somebody who's skeptical, who's angry, who's been burned? What about the person who says the words and feels nothing? Speaker 2 The feeling is irrelevant. The action is what builds the track. You don't feel strong after one push-up You do the push up to get strong. The study proved that 12 minutes a day. Not a feeling, a discipline. The brain changes first. The feeling follows okay. And it works because of what's actually Speaker 2 happening in that moment. Speaker 1 Which is. Speaker 2 What Speaker 2 Well, you're sending a signal. Your nervous system is actually built to understand. You're transferring a threat from the shoulders to someone else's. Sort of like the monster, and to bad, to your father. When you say, God, I'm handing this to you, it's yours. Now. You're not just talking. You're instructing your biology. The amygdala hears it. Threat transferred. Speaker 2 Stand down. That prefrontal cortex gets the space to come back online. It says, hey, everything's good and we're safe. And this is the neurological reset. And the data proves it's not a metaphor. Speaker 1 So the method, the handing over, that's the trigger. Speaker 1 That's the signal that starts the physical repair. Speaker 2 Yes, but here's what no one tells you. You can't do it wrong, but you can do it weak Most people pray like they're leaving a voicemail in the void that does nothing. The prayer that changes your brain is a direct, factual transfer of custody to God. It's you closing the file in your desk and moving it to his. Speaker 1 Okay, give me the difference right now. What does the weak version sound like versus the one that actually is going to change the signal? Speaker 2 Okay, so the weak version is God, please take this pain away. Speaker 2 a real transfer when you're struggling deeply with something. Speaker 2 you have to say something like, God, I'm handing you my ex-husband, I'm handing you the betrayal. Speaker 2 I'm handing Speaker 2 you my right to make him pay. That's your responsibility now, not mine. I'm done carrying it. Speaker 2 You're you're being very specific. It's a difference between asking for help and actually handing over that burden. Speaker 1 And then what, you just walk away after that. Speaker 2 No. You have to fill the space. You say God I receive your piece right here where the pain was. I receive your truth that I am safe with you. You're not asking to feel peace. You're stating that you're accepting it. You're you're giving your brain a new signal to build off. Release the way, receive the peace. That's the sequence. Speaker 2 That's the daily reset. Release and receive. Speaker 1 And if you do that, the data says your brain will physically change your stress hormones. Drop your fear center quiets, your peace center gets stronger. You literally rewire yourself out of the loop. Speaker 2 That's what the science confirms. But knowing that isn't enough, you've got to know how. And most people get stuck there. Between the theory and the doing. Speaker 1 Okay, so let's get into the how exactly what to say, when to say it, how to make it stick. Because I think people are ready. They've heard the problem. They've seen the proof. Speaker 1 So let's get into the how exactly what to say when to say it, how to make it stick. Because I think people are ready. They've heard the problem. They've seen the proof. Now we need to know what to do. Speaker 2 And that's exactly what we're going. It's a practice. It starts with 60s. It can be done. And let's break it down. Speaker 2 You stop and do two things. You release what's crushing you, and you receive what you were meant to carry and said, that's it. No special breathing, no quiet room. You can do this in your car before you walk into work. Speaker 1 Okay, walk me through it Speaker 1 a first. Speaker 2 You name it out loud if you can. God, I feel the panic about the layoffs God, I'm replaying the fight with my dad. God, I'm scared I'll fail. Whatever it is, don't analyze it. Don't justify it. State the fact. And that's the first. That's the first part of it. Speaker 1 Okay, then. Speaker 2 Then you release it, you hand it over, you say, I'm handing this to you. The fear, the person, the outcome, whatever it is, my need to control it. I'm giving it to you right now. It is yours, not mine. This is a transaction. This isn't just poetry. You're throwing something off into the void. You're transferring that deed of ownership for this pain into the name of God. Speaker 1 And if my mind screams that it's still my problem. Speaker 2 It probably will, actually, because it took you a long time to build this pathway. It's going to take you some time better and a lot less time to build a new pathway. Yeah, but you just say it again. It's yours, not mine. You repeat it until your brain starts to believe the transfer. Speaker 2 This is the signal. This is what tells the amygdala to stand down. Speaker 2 The threat is no longer yours to manage. The file is closed on your desk. You're giving this to God 100%. Because if it's already crushing, you can't deal with it. You can't control it. You can't fix it. Yeah, Speaker 2 I tell you what. Is it going to hurt to try this? No, no. And if you believe it, if you have any relationship with God, it's going to work. Speaker 2 Honestly, you don't even have to believe it. Just do it and then get back to me after a few weeks. Speaker 1 And then what do you receive? Speaker 2 When you don't leave that space empty, you say, God, I receive your piece right here Speaker 2 where that fear was. I receive your truth, that I'm safe with you. You're not asking. You're taking. God's already giving it to you. He's already promised us this. We’re instructing our nervous system of what to accept instead of panic. You're laying down this new track by removing yourself from dealing with everything and allowing God to handle it. Speaker 1 But what if I don't feel any? Peace? Speaker 2 Doesn't matter. You're not doing this to feel something. You're doing this to build something. The feeling is a passenger. It shows up later. You're building the road, the car drives on it later. Do the transfer. The change in your brain chemistry and structure is going to follow. Speaker 1 So if somebody is betrayed, Speaker 1 give me the exact words for somebody who's just stuck. Speaker 2 Okay. Right. Speaker 2 God, my spouse betrayed me. The person I trusted most shattered me. Right now I'm handing them to you. I'm handing my rage to you. I'm handing my right to revenge to you. I'm handing the replay of their face to you. Speaker 2 They're your problem now, not mine. Speaker 2 and God, right here in this gutted place. Speaker 2 I receive your peace. I receive your truth that I am safe with you. I am done carrying them. That's it. That's the reset. Speaker 1 And you do this every day. Speaker 2 You do this every time the loop starts. You don't wait for quiet time. You interrupt. The panic with the transfer is second. You start feeling this way. You immediately interrupt it in the grocery line, in the parked car before you open your eyes. In the morning. Speaker 2 60s maybe. Speaker 2 You train your brain to recognize this new default. Speaker 1 So what happens over time if somebody actually is doing this. Speaker 2 The memory stops being a trigger. It becomes a fact. In a closed case your body stops reacting and that cortisol drip stops. The mental energy you spent on replay gets freed up, which is great. We always talk about I don't have enough bandwidth to handle this. Yeah. Speaker 2 You sleep, you felt your focus returns, right? The constant tension in your shoulders leaves because your body finally believes the war's over. Speaker 2 This is this is why cortisol gets a bad rap, because it causes all these issues. But it's doing what it's supposed to do because it thinks your your body in your mind thinks that you were at there's an immediate threat to your survival. Speaker 1 Yeah. Speaker 2 And every time you think of that, it just keeps this open drip your constant state of awareness and alertness, even though sometimes you don't feel that way, things are going on in the background. It's like an app running in the background, draining your phone battery. It's there. You know, your battery's dying faster. What's going on? Yeah, it's not always apple. Speaker 2 Just with a new update or a new phone coming home. Sometimes it's just you've left something open and you may not even know that it's there. Right. But it's actually just draining you and it's sucking life. That's why as we get older, we get so much more tired, so much more fatigue. It's not just that we have stuff to do is that we have done a lot of stuff. Speaker 1 And your brain is just constantly running that in the back and over and over. Speaker 2 I mean, every time you replay you're eating disorder or I replay my sexual abuse every time it happens Speaker 1 Your cortisol spikes. Yes. Because it's happening again. Speaker 2 You may as well be right and smack in the middle of an eating disorder or an abuse. Speaker 1 Yeah. Speaker 2 Now, like I did say, sometimes you you use it as is. This is as an example to help other people. That's not reopening a wound. For me. But if I dwell on it, if I replay what I should have done, if I rehearse what I should have done, if I justify, that's when this becomes a big problem. And that's when our, Speaker 2 I use a big sciencey word hypothalamus, pituitary, adrenal axis comes into play. Speaker 2 And that's it's actually firing the cortisol in the brain. Speaker 1 Well, in Speaker 1 that's what you said it Speaker 1 it becomes a fact, Speaker 1 not just something that you ruminate on over and over again. Speaker 1 And we all know that Speaker 1 you do have to have those memories in order to keep yourself safe. Speaker 1 But when your body finally believes that war is over, you can calm down and make room for other things because that's what people want. Speaker 1 They want to just be done being tired. Speaker 2 Yeah, and then you start right now if you need to. You don't wait for the perfect moment. You don't wait to feel ready. Your healing begins the second you have willingness and you're ready to hand it over. Speaker 2 Okay. If you wait until you feel ready to release that it is never. Speaker 1 Never going to happen. Speaker 2 No, it's never going to happen. Speaker 1 Okay. Speaker 1 All right, let's do it. Let's walk everyone through it right now. Speaker 2 Right now. Speaker 1 Yeah. Speaker 2 Okay. Speaker 2 All right. Wherever you are, how do you feel? Say this with me. God, Speaker 2 here's what's crushing me. Speaker 2 I'm handing to you all of it. It is yours now, not mine. Speaker 2 I receive your peace here. I receive your truth that I'm safe with you. Speaker 1 That's it. Speaker 2 That's the reset. You do that every day if you need to. Every time you feel the spike, Speaker 2 you're not managing your stress. You're ending it. You're closing the loop. Speaker 2 And Speaker 2 I have some good news Speaker 2 our website is open now FORLOVNESS.COM Oh yeah. And it has a lot of resources, including the FORLOVENESS Circle. Speaker 1 Yeah. The quick start guide. Speaker 2 Yeah, it's a free download and it will sort of walk you through all these things. And I'm actually going to we'll get we're going to build another one that is sort of, Speaker 2 an extension that includes this and gives a little bit more information on this as well. The FORLOVENESS.com website also has an unbelievable FAQ section that's growing. Speaker 2 There's lots of resources. If you go to the FAQ section there's different categories for, you know, forgiving parents marriage and betrayal, boundaries, emotions, healing and Speaker 2 there's steps and there's, there's Scripture related to it. And we have all our episodes are on here as well, ways to contact us. Hopefully this is going to be a really good way to, let people connect with us. Speaker 2 And also Speaker 2 get some of the resources. Speaker 2 And don't forget to like, comment, share, subscribe, follow, whatever. It really actually helps us reach more people. It doesn't do it again, we're not going to get paid for this, but it helps reach other people. And that's really what this is all about for us. Speaker 1 I hope you enjoyed today everyone. If this spoke to you. Speaker 1 Be sure to share with somebody that you love or take a look at any of our previous videos on the screen. Speaker 1 I hope you have a great week! God bless.

Speaker 1 Most people think unforgiveness lives in the heart, but it doesn't. It lives in the mind. Specifically, in a story you keep replaying. And the problem is that story sounds reasonable. Speaker 2 Yeah, it really does. Speaker 1 Welcome back to FORLOVENESS Speaker 2 I'm Ryan and I'm Taylor. Speaker 1 Okay, so last week, the heart stuff. Wound the hurt. Speaker 1 The real. Speaker 2 Yeah. Speaker 1 And today I don't know something a little less comfortable. The mind. Speaker 2 Yeah. Speaker 1 Because most of us treat unforgiveness like it's just a feeling. I feel hurt. I feel angry. And that's real. But the reason it sticks isn't the feeling is that story we keep replaying in our mind over and over again. Speaker 2 And you keep agreeing with it Speaker 2 over and over again. Speaker 1 Daily. Speaker 2 And the story. I mean, it always makes it makes sense to us, right? Speaker 1 Exactly. That's airtight. That's why it's invisible. And you can do all the right things and go to church. Serve. Be kind. But if you go home and your brain's still replaying that one conversation for three hours. Speaker 2 You're not free. Speaker 1 Now you're just a bitterness addict with good manners. Speaker 2 Very true. Yeah. Speaker 1 Yeah. So today. Not comfort first, but accuracy first. If you're listening and you're already kind of irritated. Okay. That means we're near that nerve. Speaker 2 I feel like a lot of people are going to be irritated today. Speaker 1 Why? Speaker 2 Buy what we have for you today. Speaker 1 Okay, let me slow this down for just a second. Because everyone always is misunderstanding this part. Speaker 1 Give me. Speaker 2 It. I would like it a little louder, but that's okay. Speaker 1 Let me check my levels. They're incredibly low. I believe. Bam! Speaker 2 Oh, there we go. Speaker 1 Bam! Okay. Speaker 2 Oh that's great. Speaker 1 Great. Great to know. Five minutes a. Speaker 1 Okay. Let me slow this down for a second, because Speaker 1 people always want. Speaker 2 Well, I was going to ask the question. What do you mean when you say story? Speaker 2 Or do you want to just. I could have asked a question, or you just want to keep going. How it is. Speaker 1 I haven't I haven't even gotten to that part yet. Speaker 2 Okay. Keep going. Never mind. Speaker 1 Interrupt when you feel like you should. Speaker 2 Okay. Speaker 1 Just read ahead about two lines. Probably. Okay. Clip. Speaker 1 All right. Let's slow this down for a second, because people always misunderstand this part. When we say story, we don't mean you're lying to yourself or you're being dramatic. Sometimes we probably mean you're being dramatic, that you're. You're not being dramatic. And we don't mean you made something happen. You're just lying. Speaker 2 Yeah. I mean, the thing is real. It actually did happen for sure. Speaker 1 If the event is real. What changes is what your mind does. It's how you react and respond. Speaker 1 You take something painful and you turn it into a rule, not a feeling. Speaker 1 I used to tell my kids all the time, if you can control your emotions, you can control the outcome. And that's sort of true. Speaker 1 if you're living through Christ and following his example, you're going to be able to control your emotions. And if the outcome is based on the path of Jesus, then you definitely are in good shape there. Speaker 2 Well, if you. Speaker 2 You can't always control Speaker 2 the way that people act, but you can control how you respond. And Speaker 2 If you are a follower of Jesus and have him in your heart, you're going to emulate Speaker 2 Jesus Speaker 2 and how he acts and how he responds. Speaker 2 But this is usually how people are. Speaker 2 Your mind says this is what always happens. This is what I get for trusting. Speaker 2 this is what I get for doing something nice. Speaker 1 Everybody always says that. Speaker 1 This is what happens when you do something nice for somebody. Speaker 2 Well you know what. It's because you're doing something nice because you expect something in return or you're expecting a certain reaction. Speaker 2 they say they're not. But when it doesn't go exactly how they picture it in their mind, Speaker 2 then they complain. Speaker 1 And what we do is we replay these things. Speaker 1 That's when it stops being about healing and about our identity and our self. And what we do is we have this series of things that happen when someone wrongs us. We replay it, we rehearse it. We justify it. Yeah. And then we use that to protect ourselves in the future. Speaker 1 So when something unfair happens your mind hates loose ends and it's like that can't be how it ends. Speaker 1 So it opens this loop Speaker 1 let's see it live Taylor tell that story about your friend, the one that you hired. We're going to use that to map out what happens in the mind. Speaker 2 Okay. So I hired a friend because she needed a job. And of course, I wanted to help. Speaker 1 Her doing something nice for somebody. Speaker 2 Right? Speaker 2 she worked for, like, a week, maybe. And the next thing you know, I get a text from my boss Speaker 2 and it says, check your email and call me. Speaker 2 I open it and then it's this, a long email from her to corporate trying to get me fired. Speaker 1 How did that make you feel? I bet that was rough. Speaker 2 While my heart sank as soon as I read it. Speaker 1 Sure. Speaker 2 And I was extremely confused. Speaker 2 And then I was just really, really mad. Speaker 2 And after that, my mind just kind of took off. I started replaying everything in my head. What did I do wrong? What could I have done different? What did I miss over and over and over? And then I started rehearsing, having full conversations with her in my car in the shower. Speaker 2 I should have said this. I should have done that. Speaker 2 Then it shifted. I started basically building a case, Speaker 2 collecting the evidence again against her, I guess. I brought her lunch. I fixed her resume. Speaker 2 I was nothing but kind to her. Speaker 2 And it wasn't just hurt anymore. Speaker 2 It was. I needed to be right. Speaker 2 And then I made a vow. Speaker 2 I remember thinking, I'm never putting myself in this position again. I will never trust a friend at work like that again. Speaker 1 Okay, let me sit here for a second, because this is where people miss what just happened. Speaker 1 You didn't just get hurt. Speaker 1 Right. Speaker 2 Right. Speaker 1 And you didn't just get angry, right? Your entire worldview shifted. Is that right? Speaker 2 It really is. I didn't just think she did something bad. I thought, this is what happens when you help people. Speaker 1 And that's the moment. That's when the story stops being about her and starts being about everyone. And that's how one event becomes a lens that we live through forever. Yeah. All right, let's map it. Speaker 1 Unforgiveness survives because the mind keeps agreeing with a story. And here's how it agrees. In the loop that I mentioned earlier, the replay rehearsed. Speaker 1 Justify and protect. When we replay it as the obsession. What did I do wrong? That's when you're going over and over the scenario in your head. And then the rehearsal step is it's the fantasy. I should have said this. I should have done that. Yeah. I would even take it a step further. This is what I'm going to do next time it happens, right? Speaker 1 If I ever see that person again. Yes. You're actually adding to the original play. Yeah. And then you justify. And it's the inner lawyer and you takes over. You're not just remembering what they did. You're building a case against them because you were wronged. And you want all the evidence to show how you were right. Speaker 2 Right. Speaker 1 In your mind. Speaker 1 And you may have been right in that situation. It sounds like you probably. Or she may have been dealing with something else. But whenever someone wrongs us, we always go through these steps to justify ourselves being the right person, the one with the higher moral standards. And look at me. I'm good and they're bad. We go as far as to bring other people and tell them what happened and get them to agree with us. Speaker 1 And then we protect ourselves. But what we're doing is we're giving ourself a life long sentence actually. Speaker 1 You tell yourself you're never going to trust again. And that vow feels like safety but it's actually just captivity. Speaker 1 So let me ask you something. Speaker 1 When you made the vow, did it feel smart? Did it feel like the right thing to do? Speaker 2 Yes. It felt very logical and responsible. Speaker 1 Did it feel you. Were you emotional about it at all? Speaker 1 Did you question it at all? Speaker 2 I don't think so. It felt very clear. Speaker 1 And that's why this works. Speaker 1 Unforgiveness doesn't usually feel messy. It feels clean, decisive. Adult. Yeah. This person did me wrong. I'm not going to let them do this to me again. Here's all the steps I'm going to take. So no one ever does it to me again. And it feels like you're doing the right thing, doesn't it? Speaker 2 Yeah, it really does. Speaker 1 It feels like I've learned that learning that cost you connection. It's not wisdom, it's fear. Speaker 2 Yeah. Speaker 2 I mean, it turns it into this permanent rule. Speaker 2 That loop Speaker 2 took that single event and then turned it into a permanent rule. So my mind agreed with the story. Speaker 2 My kindness makes me a target. Speaker 2 Which is what a lot of people think I think. And that explains the pain. But it doesn't actually lead to freedom. It leads to lifelong suspicion. Speaker 1 So why do we stay in the loop? We agree with the story because it explains the pain. But the trade off is. It doesn't lead to freedom. Like you've just said, the story makes us a promise. The lie is, if I stay angry, I stay safe. Speaker 1 You know, say it like that. You say it like I'm just being careful or I'm protecting my peace. Oh my gosh! Speaker 2 A lot of people say that. Speaker 1 I'm protecting my peace. Yeah. And break Speaker 1 what? Peace. If you're sitting there lingering in that bitterness and replaying that over. Speaker 2 And over in your head, that's not peaceful. Speaker 1 What what peace do you have? None. Speaker 1 And what's even more is you have actually allowed this person that hurt you so bad to control every aspect of your life in those moments that you're replaying that. You're sitting there reliving that over and over, reliving it. Rewiring your brain to accept this trauma over and over again, and you just live in that bitterness. Speaker 2 In every single time you think about it. You rip off the Band-Aid. Speaker 1 And it starts bleeding again. Speaker 2 Yep. Every single time. Speaker 2 And those memories can hijack your whole day. Speaker 1 You sit there wallowing in these feelings and these thoughts, and it just starts to make you angry. Yeah. But anger doesn't make you strong. It really makes you predictable. If one memory can hijack your whole day, that's not power. That's you being run by this person that you clearly don't even like. Yeah. What's worse is you may not even know the person. Speaker 1 It could be some random person on the street that looked at you funny today and ruined your whole day. Speaker 2 Yeah. Why? Why did they do that? Why did they look at me like that? Speaker 1 We were so concerned with others. Speaker 2 And it's Speaker 2 like, do you think everything has to do with you? Speaker 2 No. Speaker 1 Yeah. Everybody does think that. Speaker 1 All right, let's think about this practically for a second. If your mood can be hijacked by someone's tone, Speaker 1 even a delay. Speaker 1 A look, Speaker 1 a memory. Speaker 1 That means your piece is conditional. Speaker 2 It's very fragile. Speaker 1 It really is. And the scary part is you start organizing your life around not triggering it. Speaker 2 Yes. Speaker 1 Who do you open up to? What do you say? How much do you share? Not because you're broken. Because you're protecting something that never actually protected you. Speaker 1 And there's a cost. Speaker 1 Over time, unforgiveness reshapes how you show up everywhere. You assume intent, your assumed tone, you. You pre-decided outcomes and you call it discernment. Speaker 2 That's a big one. Speaker 1 Yeah, but here's how you know it's fear, not discernment. Discernment makes you calmer. Fear makes you tighter. Yes. Discernment opens options. Fear narrows them. And discernment sounds like, let's see fear sounds like I already know how this ends. Speaker 1 I'm done Speaker 2 That's exactly right. Speaker 2 And you get tired. Speaker 2 you're spending today's energy fighting yesterday's battle. Speaker 2 That's the fatigue. You're unforgiveness is attacks on your attention. Speaker 2 Your mind never fully stands down. Speaker 1 I felt this after my brain injury. I was I was let go Speaker 1 and all I felt was abandoned. Speaker 1 Bitterness felt solid and nothing else did. Speaker 1 I didn't have my health, my job, my stability. But I had my anger. And anger can feel stabilizing until you realize it never lets you rest. It doesn't heal you. Speaker 1 It keeps you activated, Speaker 1 being activated feels like control. But it's not peace. Speaker 2 How do we interrupt this? Speaker 1 Scripture gives us clear directives. And in second Corinthians ten, verse five Speaker 1 says to take every thought captive. Speaker 1 That's not be positive. That's not ignore either. That's authority. And it's not about suppressing thoughts. It's about interrogating them. Speaker 1 When we have these thoughts. Speaker 1 God wants us to take them captive, not to let those thoughts take us captive. It's not take them captive and suppress them. Just push them down. I've got to move on with my day. I've got other things going on. I don't have time for this. It's. Take them count it. Take these thoughts captive. Speaker 1 Question them before God and release them to him. Yeah. Speaker 2 Yeah. And that's Speaker 2 what a lot of people do I think it, Speaker 2 it's either suppress them like you said I. Speaker 1 Think most people suppress them. Speaker 2 Or let the thoughts take them captive and just run their whole entire lives where they just can't get that out of their head and then it becomes true to them, whatever that thought is. Speaker 1 And you run that loop over and over again. And I see a lot of people doing this in a lot of parts of their life. Speaker 1 We think we're doing these things and protecting ourself, Speaker 1 What we're also doing is harming everyone around us because we don't think for a second we don't bring that home. We definitely bring it out. Yes. Speaker 1 And it affects every part of our life. It affects the way we we talk to our kids and raise them. Speaker 1 It affects the way we interact with someone at the grocery store and the clerk at the grocery. Speaker 2 Store, because you're constantly on guard. Speaker 1 All the time, and you can't live a peaceful life like that. It's not keeping you safe. It is actually the enemy doing this to you. If he can keep you replaying these loops in your head all day, every day. He doesn't have to worry about you going to God because you clearly are not doing it. Yep. Speaker 2 You're tense. Speaker 1 You're emotional all the time. Speaker 2 Yeah, and that's exactly what the enemy wants. Speaker 1 Definitely. So he wants you to. Speaker 1 Definitely. So the enemy wants you to live in this rot, this bitterness, this anger, this. I'm not good enough. This constant questioning of your self-worth. And if you've given your life to Christ, why do you not run to him every single time something like this happens? Yeah, Speaker 1 we're not perfect. We're never going to do this right. Speaker 1 But I know that when I start to feel this way, when I start to have some emotions come up, some Speaker 1 start to replay something in my head from years ago, even I, I stopped the second I recognize it, and I ask God to take it away from me. Speaker 1 And the second I do that, Speaker 1 almost immediately, it just stops. Speaker 1 My mind goes onto something else, something better. Because Satan does not want you doing that. He does not want you interacting with Christ, which is why he does this. It's a big distraction game. Speaker 1 Social media a big distraction game. Speaker 2 Yeah. Speaker 1 Everything in our life is a big distraction. We have to go to work. We have to drive in the traffic. All these things are that none of that's peaceful. Really. Speaker 1 And as long as we're living in this constant state of stress and anxiety and depression Speaker 1 and not running to God, he's got us. Yeah. Even if you say even if you go to church on Sundays and raise your hands on worship, if you're only going to church on Sundays and doing that, he's got you still. Speaker 2 This morning I was praying and I was having some feelings of inadequacy. I was Speaker 2 wondering, am I doing a good job? Am I doing enough with my work? And so I was praying and I was giving it to God, and I felt the Holy Spirit say. Speaker 2 Matthew 316 Speaker 2 and so I opened my Bible and I read that, and it's talking about when Jesus gets baptized and it says, A voice from heaven said, this is my beloved son, with whom I am well pleased. Speaker 2 And that instantly Speaker 2 made me feel at peace, because I gave it to God. I went to him, and I was telling him these thoughts that were running in my mind, and he told me, Speaker 2 I'm well pleased with you. It's okay. You're doing a good job. Speaker 1 And doing that prayer this morning and giving it to him Speaker 1 helps you out. Speaker 2 Yeah, it's Speaker 2 not about perfect thinking. It's not about never having these bad thoughts. Speaker 1 Yeah. Unforgiveness isn't just emotion. It's mental agreement. And forgiveness isn't weakness. It's the only way we stop living afraid by Speaker 1 living in that over and over and repeating these terrible thoughts to yourself all the time. That's what we're doing, is we're we're creating a mental contract with ourself that this is us and we shape that as well by these protection tactics that we use. Speaker 1 Yeah. And it's not again, it's not that you're supposed to forgive and forget. You're just not supposed to wall in it and live in it. Yeah. And Speaker 1 be obsessed about it and ruin your life. Speaker 1 There's a lot of thoughts that we have, and. Speaker 1 here's one of the most common thoughts people carry. If I let this go I'm saying what they did was okay. Speaker 1 That thought feels moral. It feels like you're defending what's right. Speaker 1 But notice what it does. It ties your healing to their behavior. So as long as what they did stays wrong, which it should, you stay stuck and Forgiveness doesn't say it was okay. It says I refuse to let what was wrong own me forever. That thought explains the pain, but it doesn't lead to my freedom. Speaker 2 I refused to let what was wrong own me forever. Speaker 2 I just want that to sink in real quick. Speaker 1 It's true though. Speaker 2 And another one. If I stay angry, I stay safe. Speaker 1 That makes sense. Anger feels like armor. Speaker 2 It does. But anger doesn't heal you. It keeps you guarded and living in that on guard state forever. Just like I said earlier, isn't safety. It's exhaustion. Speaker 2 What you think is protection is actually just a prison. Speaker 1 Yeah, and this is important to anger can be used to warn you, but it cannot carry you. Yeah. So the question isn't, does this feel protective? It's where does this leading me to? Where is it leading me? Speaker 1 Okay. And I have one more thought that people always have. Speaker 1 And this one's often true on the surface, Speaker 1 it's. They don't deserve forgiveness. And you're probably right. Speaker 2 But forgiveness, it's not about what they deserve, though, right? It's about your obedience, your freedom. Speaker 2 Because when the mind waits for deserving, the case never closes. Speaker 1 And that thought keeps the wound open. Not because it's evil, but because it keeps you caring what was never meant to be yours. Speaker 1 All of those thoughts are in this loop that we've been talking about. You don't defeat the loop by overpowering it. The way to do it is by turning to the word of God. What does it say? I think it's Matthew 1128. Can you can you read that for us real fast? Speaker 2 Yeah. It says, come to me, all who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. Speaker 1 Exactly. There's a solution for every problem in the word, right. Speaker 1 It's seriously as every time. Speaker 2 Every single time. Speaker 1 And if you're listening right now and you're realizing, man, I've been agreeing with all of these things. I live in this burden all the time. I replaying these things or rehearsing. I'm doing all of these things that they're saying in my life is just miserable because of it. That's great. The good news is you've become aware, and awareness is where forgiveness is actually beginning. Speaker 1 Now, Speaker 1 I need to invite you to stop suppressing it and stop living in it and come into willingness Speaker 1 and willingness into giving it to God Speaker 1 and taking the first steps into forgiveness. And Taylor, can you guide us through a little FORLOVENESS Circle moment here? Speaker 2 Yeah. Speaker 2 I want everybody to take a breath. You don't need to feel peace right now. You don't need to resolve anything. Just be honest and say this. Speaker 2 Lord, I am willing, even if it's barely. I release the story I've been replaying. I release the right to carry this case. Teach me how to walk in freedom. Speaker 1 We're not asking you to deny the pain. We're asking you to rewrite that vow. That protection part of the loop and base it on wisdom instead of the wound And that really matters because vows shape our behavior. If your vows built by fear, your life will shrink to it. Speaker 1 If your vows built with God, it leaves room for growth, correction, healing. Speaker 1 Right. And wisdom doesn't say nothing will ever hurt me again. It says I won't let pain be my architect. And there's a huge difference. Speaker 1 So swap the vow. Speaker 1 The key is to make it actionable. And God built. So instead of saying I'll never trust anyone again, Speaker 1 vow I will partner with wisdom as I learn to trust again. You're not dropping all those guardrails, are you? Just replacing the prison with the guardrails built by God, not fear. Fear is where Satan wants us to live. Speaker 1 it's not, stop thinking. Speaker 1 it’s start interrogating. Speaker 2 Yeah, exactly. You're breaking that agreement. Speaker 1 You're breaking the agreement at the point of signature. And that's the practice this week when you catch yourself in that loop. Go back to the FORLOVENES Circle. The guided moment that Taylor just read or download the free guide with the link at the end of the description and walk through it yourself. Or walk through it with someone else. Speaker 1 That way you're not forcing forgiveness. You're actually learning how to cope with all these things that go on in your life. And if you're listening and you're realizing, yeah, I've been agreeing with these thoughts, you're not failing. You're waking up. Speaker 1 And one more thing before we end. Speaker 1 If you've been stuck for years, this might not feel dramatic. You might not feel a breakthrough. You might not feel lighter today. That doesn't mean nothing happen. Often freedom starts quietly when that story loses its authority. Speaker 2 So here's the takeaway. Unforgiveness survives because the mind keeps agreeing with the story that explains pain but doesn't lead to freedom. Speaker 2 But you have a choice. You can break the agreement. Start by interrupting the replay. Speaker 2 Ask the sacred question. Flip the evidence swap the vow. Freedom doesn't mean the memory disappears. It means the story loses its power over you. Speaker 2 One question for you this week. Speaker 2 Which one of the four steps? Replay. Rehearse. Justify or protect. Are you going to interrogate first? Speaker 2 You're not behind. You're waking up. Speaker 1 Okay, last thing, I promise. Simple practice for this week. Speaker 1 When the loop starts. Speaker 1 Pause and write down the exact sentence your mind is repeating. Not the story or the memory, just the sentence. Like if I let this go, I'm saying it was okay. Speaker 1 Staying angry keeps me safe. They don't deserve forgiveness once it's written. Don't argue with it. Just write one line underneath it. This thought explains my pain, but it does not lead me to freedom. And that's it. You're not forcing forgiveness. You're breaking the agreement. And that's where freedom actually begins. Speaker 2 If this moment mattered to you, we've created a free FORLOVENESS Circle guide, a Christ centered way to practice this with others safely and without pressure. You'll find the link at the bottom of the description. Speaker 2 again. You're not behind here. You're learning to let go. Speaker 1 And if you like this and want to learn more, check out one of the videos on screen or the playlist. Subscribe. Like comment. And you can connect with us through any of the links in our descriptions of all our videos actually. So love to hear from you! We'd love to hear how things are going and if there's any way we can help you. Speaker 1 We'd like to do that too. So connect with us. Speaker 2 Yeah, thanks for joining us today, everyone. God bless.

Welcome back to FORLOVENESS Today we are going to be discussing a very sensitive topic and we recommend not listening with kids. This topic is going to be very personal for a lot of people listening, and this may be difficult for some people to hear. We've explored how forgiveness is not about your feelings or the other person's worthiness, but rather spiritual necessity based on the works of Jesus. We talked about how remembering past harm is necessary to prevent further harm and avoid enabling sin, and that a person who forgives demonstrates a heart of mercy. Then we touched on one of the deepest spiritual burdens carried by believers guilt and shame. We confront the challenging truth that forgiving ourselves is not merely a self-help concept, but a profound spiritual necessity. Rooted in the works of Christ, we talked about the foundation of it all. The infinite cost required for total forgiveness. The blood of God's own son. And we discussed the terrifying holy wrath of God against sin that was poured out on the cross, where the gavel of justice fell on Jesus in our place. It'll be important to remember and reflect on these lessons as we move through the episode today. Today we're going to put what we've learned to the test How are you? Pretty good, but you've got a long morning, Yeah. I've been struggling with this particular message the entire time we’ve We've been doing this, how to get it out, what it means and everything. And I really, really went hard this morning praying just really begging for the blueprint to which I was pretty much told that I've had the blueprint all along. Yeah. And I need to speak to this because this is where it really all started. Yeah. Do you want to go ahead and just get into it? Yeah, I think so. I think that's the best way to do this. Just a little background. We've gone over this. We've had words. It's been heavy. And before we go any further, I know we gave the disclaimer to not have children with you when you listen to this one. And that's because we're going to touch on something that most people don't want to talk about. And that is, sexual abuse of children. But we're not going to talk about it just simply as a human tragedy. We're going to actually try to pull the curtain back and reveal it for what it really is. And it's just a calculated masterpiece by the by the enemy. It's an act of spiritual warfare designed by him to accomplish his entire mission and a single soul shattering blow. And I think that people will be surprised at the way that it actually plays out. Before we do go any further, I want to just speak to the victim a little bit, and I understand exactly where you're coming from, because I am one of you. I dealt with this when I was a child and it affected me profoundly. And we'll get into some of that later. But right now, I just want you to give us a little bit of grace and try to listen to this message, because the overwhelming theme, as it has been from the first episode, is about forgiveness and our ability to hand over our pain and our suffering to Jesus Christ and let him take the burden of this because we are completely incapable of handling it. A lot of you are reacting right now, and so did we. Your stomach is turning. You don't want to think about this. You don't want to talk about this. You might be thinking about turning this off. You're saying in your head, no, you know, we can't bring forgiveness here. To speak of grace in this place is horrific. It's a betrayal of every broken child. It isn't. There. And this is where I really struggled. And I talked about this with you this morning when we decided to finally try to record this episode. The truth is, for the child, you don't know what to feel. You're so scared because the fear is overwhelming you. Yeah. The person most angry about this is actually going to be the parent or the guardian, or the the person protecting them or supposed to be protecting. Right. But let me speak on that before I go any further. When this happened to me, it was years before I told my parents why. We'll fear more fear. I feared what they would do, and I feared that I would lose them. So imagine you're a parent and your child is broken. You want justice, but instead of going to the authorities and giving that rage to God, you take matters into your own hands. Yeah. The truth is, this isn't about protecting your child. It's about the failure you feel for not protecting them in the first place, and the rage you feel towards the person who did it. How does this change anything or fix anything? Yeah. You actually have made things worse. You will get caught. You'll end up in prison. Now, who's going to protect your child? Who's going to be there for them in their lives? You took this situation and you make it all about you. I understand. It's righteous. It's a holy rage. This is a reflection of God's heart. That fury that you're feeling. That's his. He's not asking you to set it aside. He's asking you to trust him with it. Because if the cross of Jesus Christ isn't powerful enough for this, then our entire faith is a sentimental lie. And that's exactly the enemy's mission. In John 1010 it says, he comes for three reasons to steal, to kill, and to destroy. The abuse of a child is the enemy's trinity of evil. In one act, he steals innocence. He kills the spirit, and he destroys the family. And his primary weapon to achieve all three is fear. Fear silences the victim, fear that paralyzes the family, and fear that empowers the abuser. And as a protector, as a parent. What's your first thought when you hear that this happens to your child? Yeah, I think the initial reaction is like everyone else is. It's you're going to you're going to hurt them. You're going to you're going to take matters in your own hand and you're going to kill them. It's just that moment you're justifying that rage that murderous rage in your heart. And then that's when you become literally the second victim. Yeah. So the enemy has taken your child's innocence. Right. He's completely controlling another person. That is the perpetrator. And now he's got you speaking true vengeance. Yes. True vengeance. We say I accept Jesus Christ as my Lord and Savior. I, I really mean, I love Jesus, I love Jesus, but few times do we speak those words and mean it as much as we would mean this in this situation. Yeah. The way that you can feel the anger and the vengeance, even as I sit here and talk to you about it, the way that I am able to feel that is so strong and so powerful, it's fury. Yeah, it is fury. And what we've done here is you've taken this, this fiery passion that you think is so righteous. And so what you need to do, and you've invited the devil right into your life. That's exactly what he wants. It's exactly what he wants. And he has wrecked everything in one swoop. Yeah. And if we would just do something like give it to God, pray on it. Before we acted. Ask God for help. Because the fact is, the parent. You can't handle it either. Honestly, the child has a better chance of handling it than the parent does. And I think that's why so many children wait to tell anybody. Wait to tell an adult, not because of fear of their will get in trouble. It's the fear that they're going to lose the adult in their life because they know what's going to happen. And when you let that vengeful heart fester, it only opens up bigger. It goes from a foothold to a window, to a doorway that just lets the enemy in constantly. And you begin to it begins to get easier to do things. Yeah. And against God. In Matthew chapter five, he says, to hate your brother is to commit murder in your heart. And in Romans 12, he commanded, vengeance is mine, I will repay. So we come here. And what do we have to do? We have to give it to God. We have to get as the as the person that's having with the vengeance right now. The problem is not the child problem is not the center of the problem is you. You're the one that is making this worse because you feel bad, because you think that you failed. And now the family, the people who should be a beacon of hope and healing are captive to a spirit of vengeance that puts them in direct disobedience to God. The enemy has the entire family in chains. And now he's. What? Absolutely. Unless you can forgive, forget. And I know that's hard, and I know that's hard. But as a survivor, I think it was easier for me to forgive than it would be if I had been the parent in this situation. God doesn't give us anything we can't handle. And I got to be a survivor. I don't know that I could have handled being a parent in this situation. I thank God that he kept me strong during those times, but it definitely caused me to to look away, to step away and to question where he was in in this time. And that's actually we're going to talk about that in the next episode. You know, where were you during all of this? And I don't speak to to everybody, to the the perpetrator, the victim and the parents as well. But now we're we've got into this. You God says, oh, you got to forgive the pedophiles to. And I didn't want to do this and I didn't know how to do it. I didn't know how to speak on it. And the more I prayed on it, the more I realized that God wants us to forgive everyone. And if we can forgive something like this, then all the other things in our life that bother us being held up in traffic and being mad at somebody cut us off, or a coworker that wrongness, or a family member that did something or a friend that talk by her back. Anything that gets done us, we can handle easily by giving it to God. That includes this as well. And by giving that vengeance and hatred up to God, you're allowing yourself to remain in this child's life to help guide them through. And later, as they grow and they mature, you be able to point to this where they have anger issues of their own and point to this example and not let it completely ruin your life and the lives of other people. In Ephesians four 2627 says, be angry and do not sin. Give no opportunity to the devil. So you're going to be angry. You're going to be mad. The problem is when you act, when you cross that line, when you act on it, when you take it to the next step, you get angry, you get mad, but then you give it to God. Once you recognize this, you give it to God, right? Did Jesus name any act, even this, as unforgivable? Now in Matthew 1231 32, only the blasphemy against the Holy Spirit remains unforgiven. So even this he is telling us that we have to forgive because this is not us sinning as much as that is the enemy using us, right? He's using his. He's. I've been saying this for a while. I find it very difficult to believe that a human being can commit these acts. And I'm really standing by. Satan is involved in these people's lives in some way. Maybe they don't even know it. They're just there is a foothold that he has on them. They were victims themselves at one time or some other reason that he's got them and he is controlling this act. Yeah. And they're everywhere. Yeah. They're at your church. They're at your school. They're at the grocery store. They're at your doctor's office. They're on the airplane. They are literally everywhere. I guarantee you, we all know many of them think they're being controlled by this evil spirit. And so it's not the person that we're even mad at. We're angry at Satan. Well you're not about to fight Satan. I don't care how tough you think you are. If Satan was standing in front of you, you're supposed to resist him. Let God handle. And that's what you better do in that situation. This is no different. We are not equipped to handle this type of evil, right? We're going to. We're just not. We're not built for this. We're not. We're not designed to do it. We are to resist it at all cost and let God handle it. And he's going to handle it. And I think that's why he talks about forgiving. You know, when you have hatred for your brother, it's like murder. We're hating the wrong person here, or we're hating this, this human, which really is acting against what they're designed for. We're not designed for that either, to do these things. Something's got Ahold of them, and they're doing it. And so God wants us to forgive. And it's just such an important thing. It's really what everything is about. I imagine that these people feel helpless. Yeah. I told you a story just yesterday, I found out about someone that I personally knew. That went to church. Yeah. Was by all intents and purposes a good good person. And this is something that he had been doing. And I don't know a lot of the stories, I don't speak much about it. But he ended up taking his own life. Out of fear of what was going to happen to him. Yeah. And that's the first thing I thought of that he felt helpless in this situation. But I can guarantee you that this is not something that these people want to be doing. No, I think for sure, the the the human heart that God has given us is not something that we want to be doing. But once he's got a foothold up here, once he's got Ahold of you and he has control on you, the only way to get out of that is to is to give yourself up to the Holy Spirit. Because how many children would we be saving if we started turning the pedophiles to Christ? So many. And I mean, that's the whole point, is that if they're God, if they are turned, if they turn to Christ, and, you know, in the perfect world, they turn to Christ, and this ceases to exist and it's no longer an issue. That would be amazing, right? And you know, something that we've talked about before is our initial reaction as humans, when we get angry, when how this is not something that we talk about, we just shun them. This is, in our minds, the lowest of the low. We shun them. We don't want them near us. We don't want to speak about it in. The problem is never going to be fixed if we don't deal with it. Yeah, that's really the power of the cross. It's the only place the victim's pain is honored. The avenger sin is confronted and the offender's guilt can be cleansed. There's no other help than that. And we as Christians have to be an example to these people about what it really means to live in Christ. We have to show them forgiveness. We have to show them kindness. If you're listening and you are an abuser, you got to understand your position. You're not the mastermind of this. It's Satan. You're a captive, a slave to this power that works through the passions of your flesh to steal, kill, and destroy. Right. The cure and everything that you're experiencing right now, the gnawing terror of being afraid of the exposure. These aren't. These are not just your feelings. They're the chains the enemy uses to keep you bound to him. Right. He whispers that you're that you are your sin and you're beyond hope. You've got to stay hidden. The fact that you're still drawing breath is a testament to the patience of God. Every heartbeat is a second of mercy. You've not earned in. Jesus said, it's better for you to have a millstone tied around your neck, and for you to be flung into the sea than you cause one of these little ones to stumble. That's the justice that you've earned and the damnation that's coming for you. But in God you have forgiveness. You do. He is the one single impossible hope that stands between your soul and the hell that you've earned. Right? Right. And it's not easy. It demands. It demands that you confess your crimes to the authorities and accept the full earthly consequences. Yeah. It demands you submit to a lifetime of transparent accountability. It demands you throw your entire wretched, broken soul at the foot of the cross and plead for the mercy that should not exist for you. But it does, because it's the only power in the universe strong after break these chains that the enemy has you tied up at. And it's the only love deep enough to wash away the stain. And this is a hard truth. So how can forgiveness become freedom rather than a betrayal for the survivor. We've talked about this many times. When you release that bitterness, that anger, that hurt in your heart. You release it to God. He just makes everything better almost instantly. If you truly, really give it to him. He makes it. He makes it away. It's not a betrayal for the survivor. It's peace for the survivor. Yes, that's what it really is. It's taking that hurt and that pain and that fear and giving it to the only one that can fix it is you can't fix it. Your parents can't fix it, counselor can't fix it. The person that did it can't fix it. Only God can fix it. So it is not betraying the survivor at all. It's actually helping the survivor. But none of us talk about that because we are too busy wanting to do things our own, and we're so mad and vengeful that we're going to go take care of ourselves, which is the complete opposite of what you should be doing. And how does that forgiveness become an act of spiritual warfare that breaks the enemy's grip? That's it. That is our weapon. Yeah. As humans, we can't physically fight the enemy like that. Nor would we be able to win. But this is what we are able to do when he's got this grip on you. He's got your fear. He's got your vengeance. He's stolen. You're in a sense. He's control, controlled, conquered and done everything. This act of spiritual warfare is your ammunition to break that grip. Because by giving it to God, you're releasing it to God, and he's handling it. So now the enemy doesn't have you. What's happening is the enemy is trying to get you on his team. And God's trying to allow you to be on his team. Right. And in second Corinthians ten four it says the weapons we fight with are not the weapons of the world. On the contrary, they have divine power to demolish strongholds. Yeah. And that's exactly what it does. All we have, he's required us to forgive, which is not always easy thing for us to do, especially when we talk about this type of thing. But it is the single greatest weapon that we have against the enemy. We are forgiving everything that is done and giving it to God and letting him handle it. And we're just going to live our life. But like I said, the enemy wants you on his team and fights for you. Right. God wants you on his team but he allows you to choose. That's the free will release and it releases you. It I think holds some release for the offender and it releases your child. It shows the offender that there is a power greater than the evil, that they have a hold of them. Yes. It gives the child a place to rest their their woes, their worries, their fears. And it gives you a place to release your vengeance and your anger. Yeah. And by doing this, you are completely demolishing the enemy. Which is the real problem here. Because when we refuse to let go of hatred, whose voice are we really obeying? It is not God's. We are giving it up to a Lord that is not him. So anytime that you think about this and you think about what you would do to this person when you are holding that vengeance in your heart and that hatred and that, and it's fear to and vengeance that's coming from the fear that you failed or did something happen to your child, you weren't there to protect them, right? You're giving it to the enemy. You are actually increasing their power by doing this, right? You're giving them your soul. Yeah. God had it. It's taking you further and further and further. Hundred percent. God. Yeah, 100%. And it's going to take you away from your child. And like I've said many times, who is supposed to protect them and lead them now because you decided to make this all about you instead of giving it to God for giving everything. And I know that's hard. I know it's really hard to do, but it's work commanded to do it. And if you will do it, you will get through it. If you don't do it, you likely will not get through it, and you won't get through it. Well, and he says, our own forgiveness depends on forgiving others. Matthew 614 through 15. For if you forgive other people when they sin against you, your heavenly father will also forgive you. But if you do not forgive others their sins, your father will not forgive you your sins. I know that, so we've talked about that some in probably every episode that's come up now that I think about it. Yeah. It's in the Lord's Prayer, right? It's crucially important lesson to learn, and it speaks to the entire reason Jesus came here was to forgive our sins. He died for our sins. All of our sins. Not mine. Not yours, not small ones. All of them. And if we don't accept that, then what's in question? Our salvation is in question. It's not again that we can lose it. It's that we'd likely never had it. If you can't forgive even this, you need to question yourself. So when we look into this evil, do we believe that God's grace still goes deeper? Absolutely. In Romans 520, where sin increased, grace abounded all the more so the deeper that sin, that pain, that hurt is for us. God's grace is even stronger than that. And it's more. And it gets bigger. This is something that is big to a lot of people. And only God's grace and love can get us through it. Yeah. We're not going to get ourselves through it. My experience defined me as a person the rest of my life. Had I given it to God at the time I, I don't know what my life would be like. I think it would be very different. Yeah. I don't I don't know that I would get to speak on this right now. I feel really honored. I've actually been thanking God for the opportunity to have the capacity to have dealt with that and be able to speak on this and hopefully help others. And he's given us that opportunity. And when he first put this on my heart, I was devastated by it. I wanted no part of it. But as I as I said before, I stepped into the obedience, I realized it was about a lot more than that. It was about a much bigger picture. And I realized that he put me in situations throughout my life to be able to get to this point, and I'm so grateful for that to him. There was a time where I had a a tumultuous relationship with God because I was angry. I was hurt, I felt that he left me. I felt that, you know, where were you during this, you know, why did you let this happen? And we speak on that in the next episode where we talk about, you know, where were you? Actually, I think the title of the episode. And I think this goes for everything. I know that it was all about, you know, this abuse in this episode. And I think that's because God wanted to get across that you've got to forgive everything. And if you can forgive this, there's nothing else that you that should really bother you for the most part, because I think this is one that we all agree on. I mean, this, this guys have a hard time in, even in prison. And I think that speaks volume to the stranglehold that the enemy has on our entire society. But what we don't realize is that that's the more we push it away, the more we don't talk about it, the more we don't give it to God, the more we don't expose it, the bigger the opening for the enemy gets. And it's so prevalent everywhere. It's honestly heartbreaking, but we're doing it to ourselves. We're allowing it by giving him the ammunition and allowing him to continue as opposed to, like we said earlier, forgiveness and trying to help people through it. I know that there's boundaries we talked about in in the second episode. If you know, these people are already in your church, right? And I know you want to protect everybody and keep them safe as we should, but they have to have a place to seek Christ even if it's online. Yeah. And again, how many more babies can we save if we can forgive these abusers and help to bring them to Christ? All you've got to do is forgive. Yeah. And give it to God in your position in eternity. Well, rely partly on your ability to forgive. And I know we went longer than we were supposed to today, but this was the main. This is what we've been building to. We built this whole foundation for everything because we knew where this was going. And thankfully, this isn't the end. We've got, two more that we're doing. Yeah. The one I spoke about. And then there's another one that hopefully he will put the words in our hearts to be able to speak and tell you exactly where he was and what he has planned for, for us all. There are only eight episodes of this before he moves us on to the next phase, which is going to be much better than we'll get into later. Thank you for joining us, everyone. God bless you.

Hello and welcome back. Over the past four episodes, we have walked a difficult road together. We've talked about why we must forgive. How to set boundaries for our own safety. How to release the guilt and shame we carry, and the infinite price that was paid for our own pardon. We have been building a foundation and today we placed the cornerstone. We need to talk about the single biggest obstacle to forgiveness. It's the question that burns in our minds when we are deeply, unjustly wronged. It's the question that screams from the headlines and whispers in our darkest moments. What about justice? What happens when the person who hurt you gets away with it? When they show no remorse? When they move on with their life, happy and successful? While you are left to sweep up the broken pieces of yours, the desire for justice, for vengeance is not a flaw. It's a feature of being made in the image of a just God. It is a righteous fire. But if we are not careful, that fire will consume us. Today we are going to talk about who holds the gavel, because until you are absolutely certain that judgment is coming, you will never be free from the burden of trying to bring it yourself. Hello. How are you? I'm fired up for God. Yeah. We have a big day today. Yeah, we do have a huge day today. You have a big day just ourselves. And we have a big day here. We're about to fly out. Yeah, we're flying out for the extension of this beginning for us and moving into the things that God's been calling for you, which is great. We have a really big, powerful episode that I think will be short. I think we can get the point across that that he wants us to get across. Before we move on to one of the hardest episodes that we will actually ever have to do. Yeah. And I think that this is something that every single one of us deal with. And it's a really hard topic. It's really hard to think about. Just because it's something we're not good at. So I guess we can just go ahead and jump in when we're wronged. Every single one of us, by instinct, wants to reach for that gavel, right? Absolutely. We appoint ourself as judge, jury, executioner. We hold the trial in our minds. And, you know, we gather evidence. We replay that offense over and over and over. I do that a lot. Yeah, constantly. And replaying that when someone gets on my nerves, I will replay that over and over in my head. And for a long time I would live out the vengeance that I wanted to and act on that person. And often it was various forms of it, right? And it just makes you even more mad too, the more you think about it. We probably all have plenty of examples of somebody doing something wrong to us that we didn't deserve. Absolutely. And you sit there and you wonder why. And there's that part in your mind that's always like, well, what if I did this? Or I could call this person and blame them for this, you know, and we want the vengeance and we want to give the sentence. And that's just a life of bitterness, resentment and anger that we hold in our hearts. Have you ever had someone that did something to you, even not even someone necessarily close to you? Maybe someone cut you off in traffic really wrong that day, or could even be in grade school where some kid pushed you or stole your lunch and you replayed that for years afterwards about, you know, what you should have done to them, or how you should have handled that and not in a proper way. Usually when we reflect on that and how should I have handled that? It's in the way of that better. Well, and it's to satisfy yourself. How should I've handled that to satisfy myself and to make myself feel better. Right? Yeah. And usually it's how should I have handled that so that they can feel the pain that I'm feeling. But oftentimes even worse. Right. How can I make it. How can I get over on them. How can I. Yes. Right. It be the right way. The strong win here. Yeah. Because they did something to me that I didn't deserve. So they deserve to get this in return. Yes and yes. The answer is yes. I've had that happen to me. Plenty of times. I do it all the time, and I've been trying to get better. And whenever that has come up in my mind. I know what it is. It's. I have left some kind of window cracked, right. And the enemy comes in and says, oh, hey, you remember this? And then I will sit there and it is honestly, it's 30s minimum before I realize what's happening. Right. And I have to shut that door. You know, I have to call on Jesus to handle it and rebuke that thought. Yeah, it makes it better. Especially right then, because I realize that I've caught myself in something that I'm not supposed to be doing well. And I think that there's a couple of things that could be going on here. And I think about my life and, you know, my own examples in the past and, you know, one thing it could be is God moving you out of a situation, God removing a person from you, God making that move. Somebody is doing something in you or to you. And that's actually God making that move or remembering that they have their own problems too. And most of the time when people do you wrong, it has nothing to do with you. Yeah, often. And I think that that's important to remember as well. But when we sit in that anger, it's just it's exhausting and it's a burden. I mean, we talked about a couple of episodes ago, I don't remember exactly which one, but how Jonah said or how God said to Jonah, do you do well to be angry? Yeah. No we don't. No, not at all. And it doesn't add anything to your life. It doesn't help the other person's life. It doesn't. It really does nothing to fix it, to be angry. And I get it. Here we are, seemingly handing down judgment on everyone for being this way. But in fact, we are all this way. It's it's part of our flaw. And we actually mentioned that in the in the intro today. It's a feature of being made in the image of a just God. He is he's the most just. He is and he is all powerful. And he is very vengeful when you let him handle it. If you are too busy trying to deal with it, it's going to cause you more problems and he can't do what he needs to do. Right. And you're taking away what's for him? Yeah. I mean, the gavel is not in your hand. It's in his hand. In one of the most direct statements in all of Scripture. God speaks to the apostle Paul. It's in Romans chapter 12. And he makes this massive declaration. And it's so powerful when you think of this. And when I was going over this this morning and I was actually reading these to you. Yeah, I was almost frightened for the enemy. Right. Because like the way that the Bible puts these things and I'll just read it real quick. Beloved never avenge yourselves, but leave it to the wrath of God, for it is written, vengeance is mine. I will repay, says the Lord. That is. It's not a suggestion, it's a command. It's not a suggestion. It actually it is a command. Pause for a moment and think about that, for it is written, vengeance is mine. I will repay, says the Lord. Take a moment and think about this. It is a command, not a suggestion. He's telling you that justice matters so much to him, that he cannot and will not trust it in your hands. He is the only one qualified for the job. Your job is to not be the judge, but to trust the judge. Yep. Boom. Right there. Yeah. You know, like, we can end it right now. You don't get it from here. You're not going to get it. Yep. There is no retaliation. There's no getting back. There is none of that. Somebody does you wrong. Put on a smile. Say thank you. Have a great day and be done with it. Let God handle it. Yes. Trust that he's going to handle it. We've been saying this whole time when you need to forgive someone, you need to give it to God and let him handle it. When you need to forgive yourself, you need to give that guilt and shame up to God and let him handle it. Now we're saying the same thing about vengeance, but the emotion is so strong in us when we get angry that we want it now. And whatever we do now is so temporary. Or is his vengeance is permanent and forever. Yeah. And so much worse. Far worse than we could ever even dream up. And it might look like evil is winning here. But this is where faith must become sight. Oh, yeah. We have to see God for who he truly is. And remember that he is the general of the armies of heaven. He is king on the throne. He is perfect, and he is perfectly just. Yeah. And he remembers everything. Like Psalm 139 tells us he knows our thoughts before we think them. So do you think for one second he missed anything that happened to you? He sees every tear. He records every injustice. Yeah. I mean he's all knowing there's, there's we've talked about this plenty of times. There's nothing that you can get past. God. There's nothing that you can hide from God. He knows everything and he's going to deal with everything. Yeah. And his justice is not a threat to be feared. It's a promise to be trusted and trust that he's going to handle it right. And you have to let that be comforting to you. I mean, it should be comforting. The justice of God should be as safe harbor. It's it's a guarantee that no sin is going to go unpunished. No abuser, no liar, no betrayer, no thief is going to stand before the throne of God on the final day and hear, you know what? Just. I'm going to go ahead and let that one slide. Yeah, like that's not going to happen. No. Every account is going to be settled. Every debt is going to be paid. The books are going to be balanced perfectly. And eternally. Don't we know who our God is? He loves you. He has your back and he will repay. It is not your job. It is his and he will do it. This goes back into what we talked about forgiveness, being for ourselves, also, not holding on to that bitterness and that anger because it affects us, at least that door open and an unforgiving heart is an unforgiving heart. Yes. This is the same thing here as well. If you are living in this vengeful state, right, you've clearly not forgiven this person, right? Therefore, you are not following God's greatest commands, right? And you yourself have never accepted him the way you think you have and the way he requires us to. All I want to say is it's time to get the picture. It is. I'm sorry if that sounds harsh, but that's what's coming to my mind right now. I agree with you. It's very difficult. And I know we're sitting here on this talking, and it's very easy. And something could happen today to us to to give us this. The thing is, you have to immediately recognize what you're doing and give it to God. We're going to do this. Oh, yeah. For sure. The real the real thing is that we're going to be honest. We're not the only victims. We are also the perpetrators. We have lied. We've been selfish. We have wounded others. We sinned against God. We're no better than the worst sinners. And that same unmovable, perfect justice that we want for our enemies. It stands over us as well, because we are also guilty. Yeah, and I think that that's important. We are no better than the worst of sinners, right? And this is where the cross becomes either our terror or our only hope. And I want it to be our only hope. And everyone listening is only hope. But if you live in this vengeful state, it's going to become your terror and you're going to have to answer for it. And I know if you said the words before, you had better mean those words about accepting Jesus Christ as your Savior and having faith, because it's going to get a lot harder when we start the next episode at the cross, the full, terrifying holy wrath of God against sin was poured out. That gavel of justice fell. The sentence was carried out. We've talked about this. It didn't fall on us. It fell on Jesus. We've had this conversation. Yes. And he's so perfectly just that he punish sin. But he is also perfectly merciful. He punished his own son in our place. All we have to do is have faith and believe in him. Yeah. He is, as Romans 326 says, both just and the justifier. He is the only one who can uphold the law and pardon the lawbreaker at the same time. That's crazy. So unbelievable. So when we look at the person who wronged us, we're faced with a humbling, convicting truth. The only difference between us and them is grace. Oh, yeah. We both deserve the gavel, for sure. But for those who are in Christ, the sentence has already been served. We got a loan. Honestly, we got an extended line of credit. It doesn't mean we can do those sins, but it means as long as we repent for the sins and trusting God to have faith in God. Yeah. That our sins have been paid for. But that includes this. Not having this, holding this vengeance in this anger, in this hatred. Once you feel it and once you let it take a hold of you immediately, you have got to give it to God. Yeah. I know that it's hard to be an issue for some people. As we continue and really just the next episode is going to be so strong and so powerful that this is going to play a major, major role in people. The first response to that episode is going to be anger and vengeance. Proportions that we rarely talk about or we rarely discuss as humans amongst ourselves, even if we think it and we feel it. And when you listen to that, next time you might need to come back to this episode and relisten to what we're telling you now. Yeah. And this isn't to scare you. It's to remind you, each of us, that God has got it. You don't have to do it. And honestly, you're not capable of doing it. It is about as much as you think you want to do it, and you will think that you can do it. Nothing you can do compared to what he's going to do. So if you want the worst, worst vengeance for someone. Yeah, give it to God and let him deal with it and let go of that burden. This is why we can trust God with justice, because we've seen what his justice looks like, and we felt what his mercy feels like. He'll deal with those who have wronged you with perfect, terrifying justice unless they like you. Run to the cross and plead for the same mercy that you received, man. God's mercy is there for everyone to receive. All we have to do is run up to the cross and meet Jesus there. We don't even have to meet him halfway. We have to take a single step. Yeah. You're right. He went the rest of the way. You're totally right. Because he knew we couldn't even make it. Me and my half way. And this is the foundation we have to stand on as we move forward. God is the perfect judge. He will miss nothing. He will repay everything. The gavel is in his hand and his alone. You're free from that burden. You are called to rest in the security of his justice, and to live in the humility of the mercy. You have been shot. Hold on to that, because I promise you're going to need it. Absolutely. Okay. I want to reflect on something. Is there a specific relationship or situation you're still trying to be the judge in? And what would it feel like if God came to you and you were able to hand that over to him physically and personally, so good and consciously just give it to him and let him deal with it right here and now? Yeah. How would that feel? Just think about that. And then if you actually have if you actually have faith in God and you really do truly believe in your heart, give it to him and let him deal with it and move on about your life and live the way he wants you to live. Any vengeance, any of this, this going on in your life that's keeping you from obeying him and doing what he wants you to do? He means you're playing for the wrong team. You are working for the enemy. Yeah. Any vengeance you hold. You're working for the enemy. Yeah, I remember that. Are you on God's team? Are you on the enemy team? I'm on God's team. I want to be on God's team. Personally, I in my life, I've been on both. And I can tell you right now, this is the winning team. Yep. 100%, 100% of the time. It may not feel like you're winning. Sometimes, but in the end, you're always going to be the winner. And he's promised us justice. So think about this. Do you truly believe and have faith that God has your back? Spend time asking God to replace your fear that they'll get away with it. With a deep trust in his promise to repay and the humility of mercy. How does remembering that you two were a guilty defendant who received a pardon? Change the way you view the person who wronged you. Does it make it easier to hand their case over to the one true judge? I think it absolutely does. And before we go, I want to remind everyone of something as we go into the next episode, there's going to be a warning. The next episode will not be for children to listen to. So if you do listen with your kids in the car or something, you don't want to listen to it with them, that needs to be just you. Yeah. It's going to be a lot heavier. It's going to be very heavy. It's going to dive into some of the things that we as a society don't really talk about often enough. But this message that's coming is actually was the initial calling I got. Thank you everyone for being here today. I hope that you received something out of this message, and you really take some time to reflect on it this week. God bless.

What if the deepest betrayal you've ever experienced wasn't an ending, but a divine redirection? Imagine God taking the shattered pieces of your trust and re-engineering your entire life. Let's unveil how your pain can become the starting point for an even greater God ordained story, giving you a renewed sense of purpose. Welcome to For Love Nest. I'm Ryan, and I'm Taylor. We talked last week about a lot of personal stories. Yeah, and we were tying them together with biblical stories. And today, I wanted to go back and touch on the very first one we did, which was a story about you and betrayal that you had in your life. Do you want to touch on that really quickly? Yeah I had gone out with some girls from work and we ended up at a strip club and I had taken a shot with some of them, got drugged, and all of the girls left and the staff at the end of the night just threw me in a cab, so I wasn't awake. And the cab driver, instead of taking me home, took me to a hotel room and raped me. But luckily, I ended up at home the next day, safe and sound with my family. You must have felt really lost in the aftermath of that. There are a lot of people that I was trying to hang out with. Right? That were my friends. that really changed everything I believed about trust. And for years, I tried to heal myself. I would try and find new friends, new jobs, you know, new places to go. But really, they were just all distractions. I wasn't actually healing from the wounds. They were just changing shape. And when you're betrayed by family and by friends, it's not just loss. It's mostly confusion. I know we touched on Joseph a little bit last week, and he didn't end up in a pit because of strangers. His own brother sold him. But Scripture says the Lord was with Joseph even in the prison. And so God's presence isn't proven by comfort. It's proven by your survival. That's such a problem that we have. We all try to climb out of that pit with our own hands. We go to therapy. We want revenge. numbing ourselves with drugs, alcohol. But you can't rebuild yourself with the same bricks that broke you. Yeah. Joseph never escaped the pit. He was lifted out. So true healing is. It's something you achieve. It's something you receive. And if you've been trying to fix yourself and it's not working, maybe it's time to let the one who was betrayed for you take over. Can you elaborate on that story maybe just go a little bit deeper into it. Yeah. I was a server at a restaurant and I didn't really have a lot of friends. I was really trying to fit in with all of these girls that I worked with. You were new to town? Yeah, I was. You know, I had a hard time fitting in, but I still wanted. They still wanted to try. There was one night where these girls were all going out, and I had got invited. There was one particular girl who I was sort of close with, and she's actually the one that invited me. So I decided to go out with them and. We ended up in a in the strip club and looking back, there were multiple times that God had tried to get me to leave and to to exit the situation. So. some of the girls were heading upstairs to this lounge area and we get there and there's a bunch of shots on a table. And the first thing that we do when we get up there is we take these shots. I was standing right in front of this couch, and I remember sitting down on the couch and immediately passing out. I'm not really sure how much time had passed, but I do kind of vaguely remember waking up after to the employees trying to figure out who I was, who to call because I was just there, passed out. So at this point, club had closed and everybody was gone, including all of the girls that I came there with. and it was just me and the staff. They didn't know what to do. And so the staff called the cab and put me in the cab. You would think the cab driver was going to take me home, right? But he didn't. He actually took me to a hotel And then the next morning, I did wake up, and I got very lucky. but I did. I got home, and I think I just kind of went straight to bed And after that, I don't really think I ever talked about it too much. I think I told myself that because I was drugged that it was. It didn't hurt as bad that that pain wasn't as deep and that time would fix it. But really, I think it just kind of taught me how to hide it. So you tried to excuse. You tried to dumb it down. Right. Yeah. To just not make it seem as, as a big deal. So you tried to really protect your own emotions and protect yourself. You tried to handle it yourself. How'd that work out for you? Not very good. I mean, of course, I got a new job, tried to find new friends. I think that that was probably a good idea at the time. Of course. Of course it was. But, you know, you try to find new people, and then you get the same thing in the new people. Why do you think that is? Because the problem isn't actually going away. You're not actually healing the wounds. You can't heal yourself. No you can't. You have to give your wounds to God so that he can heal them for you. But oftentimes there are things that he will do to sort of redirect us. Did you find that as you, as you looked back on that night, did you see any areas where that happened. Yes, definitely. Like there were multiple times that night that, I didn't think at the time. But looking back I know it was God trying to get me to go home. The first thing that happened was the the main girl, the girl I was closer with, got sick. I remember she started throwing up, and so I took her home. I drove her home, and I should have just left there. Yes. I should have just left. Then I literally left the club, drove her to her house, and she was the only one that I was even semi close with. So I should have just gone home from there. Sure. But I decided I'm going to go back to the club. Of course, second thing that happened is when I got back to the club, one of the other girls literally said, I will pay you $200 if you leave right now. Sounds like good friends you were hanging out with. Yeah. No, they I don't know. I don't know why these girls just did not like me. Or was it that God was trying to protect you? You just weren't listening. Yeah, I think so. And the third thing was when we were headed upstairs to the lounge area, I remember one of the girls saying there's cocaine up here. And knowing myself and obviously God knows me too. He knows that I want nothing to do with drugs of that kind. Yeah. That is always something that I've stood my ground on. at that moment, I was just like, no, it's fine. I'm not going to do that. I'll just go anyways. I think he was trying to scare me into leaving. Yes, he seems to have used several misdirection techniques to get you. To get you to leave. If I just would have listened and not been so stubborn, I. I had multiple chances to get out. And then this horrible thing happens to me and it's not what God intended. It's not what he made happen. But he is going to redeem that circumstance. And I thought that that night broke me. But in reality, God actually found a way to build me The enemy tried to silence my voice, but God used it to set me free and gave me an opportunity to help others. And it all started with laying that burden down and forgiving. Right. If you carried your own burden and tried to be your own savior, you're likely still struggling with whatever betrayal you're you've dealt with. But every time I forgive, I feel closer to Jesus. Yeah. He's taking away the power the enemy has over me. The the power intended for evil. And using it for good. I truly believe that forgiveness is so powerful. That reminds me of Genesis 50:20, where Joseph, when he finally talked to his brothers, he says, you intended evil against me, but God intended it for good. Joseph's forgiveness didn't just heal his family. It saved a nation because one man refused to retaliate in his betrayal against his brothers. Millions were fed. Forgiveness doesn't just free the forgiver. It feeds the world around them. Someone is watching your obedience. Someone's survival truly might depend on it. That's why Christ forgave before anyone repented. He knew the world's survival depended on it. They meant it for evil. But God turned it into evidence. the same wound they used to shame me became a platform God uses to speak through me. Redemption. Isn't God erasing your past. It's him giving your pain, purpose How would you guide someone that is going through this situation right now. If you could talk to them right now, if you could talk to someone that was dealing with some type of betrayal in their life. What would you say to them to guide them in the direction they need to be going? I would do the exact opposite of what I did do. instead of trying to deal with it myself or suppress it, or look to outside sources to help me heal. I would try to discern God's new direction, and I would pray, and I would give any pain, any hurt to him and try and look for how he was building me in the situation and how what good can come from it. Right. Yeah. by asking him in, in sitting in stillness. You know, it's so important to, to not just speak to God when you're praying, but to listen to him. He talks to you in the silence and in the stillness. Sit there with no music. no outside distractions and just truly listen. and seek and seek wise counsel, maybe from a pastor and find somebody that you trust and that you can rely on. that's probably older than you, more spiritually, more experienced or experienced. Yeah. You know something else that's crazy? That I think that the even, like when I got home and stuff, I had, I had everything, I had my phone, I had my wallet, I had all my money, my purse, everything. I still had. It's just truly the craziest. It's not crazy. People that are not close to God. Or that have a block against God even, even though they think that they are close and they're really trying but they have a block. They don't see what what we're seeing here. In retrospect you can look back and see all the ways God tried to misdirect you, all the ways he tried to protect you. Yeah. But the enemy had you at the time. Because if you don't have God, the enemy has you. And now you can look back on that and see it today when you have a much closer relationship to God you see it all the time. You see it as it happens because you're looking for it. You're not trying to control the situation. You're letting God control it. You're just watching the magic happen in front of you. Yeah. All those times I should have left. And. But instead, I wanted to control the situation. And I said, okay, no, I'm not going to let those girls treat me like this. So I'm going to do what I want to do, and I'm going to stay here, and I'm going to get through it. And I'm going to stand up for myself, when in reality I don't need to be doing anything for myself. Right. God needs to do everything for you. Yeah. It's. We say this all the time. It's both the easiest thing and the hardest thing. It's very difficult for us to let go of control because we're so used to it. Right. But if in those moments when we can, everything becomes crystal clear and so much easier. And I think that's part of God's divine plan. when you ended up in this situation. It's not that he caused it right. Or even allowed it. Obviously not. He tried to get me to he tried to get you to leave several times out of it. He gave you more than enough chances. Right. Which is part of his grace. He always is giving us chances. But he took this situation that the enemy intended for evil and has made it good. He didn't just try to mend you which is what we did. We just try to mend it, patch it up and move on about our day. Go get a new job, get new friends. What you needed. Definitely But he builds something entirely new and usually better than what the original plan is. When we go through things and we eventually give it to him. Yeah. He rewards us so much. And I'm not talking about necessarily financial rewards. I'm talking about spiritual rewards. Yes. That you have to accept to understand what I'm really talking about. And I wish everyone listening could understand it. Yeah. It's hard to explain until you. It is hard to explain. And I've seen people my whole life when they get, you know, and they catch fire, you know, with the Holy Spirit and all these things. They're sometimes difficult to be around. That's not really it. It's that the enemy is keeping you from being around them. Yeah. In your case, back then, the enemy was definitely keeping you from having any part, anything to do with God. He had you in bad environments for work, bad environment for friends, bad environments going out. Bad environments. Going home. The entire night was just one big chaotic, enemy driven weapon and telling me that I needed these people to feel worthy and loved. I don't need those people. I needed God. And what he did was what he does every single time. If you let him. He took that pain and that suffering and turned it into something good so that you could end up having authority and a platform now to help others in this situation. Yeah, he completely redeemed it. And you've dealt with it and gotten through it and God has healed you from it. Someone that is listening, that hasn't healed from it, that has tried everything. Maybe this is the direction that they need to go. Yeah. It's not. Maybe it's the direction. It is the direction. Just spoiler alert. It's the only direction that actually works. You'll find out over the next several weeks. We've been through a lot of stuff in our lives and none of it actually worked except for this. So take that for what it's worth now. But absolutely, that's where we're going with all this. It's interesting to me when you go through such suffering, and this is everyone that I know that has ever struggled with anything. Once they've come through the other side, there is a surprising strength and resilience that they discover through this. Can you talk a little bit about that? Definitely. If God asks me to go through everything in my life again, that's been hard. I would do it in a heartbeat because of who it made me today, and because of what? Because of the strength that it gave me. Yeah. And you see that now. Especially that he has a plan for you, even though you don't know what it is. You really need to know what it is you need to follow his path. And I say that a lot to the things that I've gone through, as is difficult as they they were and sometimes still are. I wouldn't change it. I would go through them again. those things give us authority to be able to help other people. It's Do we recognize that we need God at some point? And are we willing to step in to what he's got for us? Yeah, that's where people fail. A lot of times they don't take that step because they're angry at God. We've both been there because they don't have a good relationship. We've just been there. Yeah, because it's, you know, everybody says, oh, it's stupid or it's annoying. So people don't do it. They're afraid to do it. But there's nothing to be afraid of with God. He's not going to give us anything that we can't handle. Including the worst things that we ever go through. Yeah. And he's going to use it to give us the ability to help And it's really all about trusting him and trusting that there's an unseen path there. Yes. And that's something that I'm really working hard on in overcoming the fear and the hesitation of embracing that new life path after you've been deeply hurt. It's very important to surrender, control and allow God to lead even when the future is unclear. Because his ways are always greater, his plans are always better This is a lot like the story of Joseph in Genesis, where he was betrayed by not even his friends. By his brothers. Left for dead. Then he was sold. Right. Then he was made a slave. Then he end up being thrown in prison for being falsely accused of sexual assault actually because he would not sleep with his master's wife. Then imprisoned and then forgotten about And then Then he ended up in Pharaoh's house in a, in a position of second in command of Egypt at the time. Great power. They were the greatest power in the world at the time. And he had a chance to really get back over on his family. But instead he chose to forgive them. Yeah. God is with us all the time. He was with Joseph in the pit. He was with you at the club. He was with Joseph in prison. He was with you at the hotel. He was not forgotten. You're not forgotten. He was being formed. You were being formed. And this is forloveness. Where forgiveness isn't retreat. It's a spiritual weapon used to destroy the enemy's evil intent. And God's love wins. And that's why we forgive. embracing our story as a powerful testimony to God's faithfulness and redemptive power. And using our experience to become a beacon of hope and inspiration for others facing similar betrayal. The enduring peace and profound gratitude found in living a life divinely re-engineered. So despite our betrayals, that immediate impact of betrayal, that emotional earthquake that we all feel. That feeling of being lost when your life is seemingly been destroyed. God's building something entirely new for you. Overcoming the fear and hesitation of embracing that new life will set you on a path that you will not believe, even when the future is unclear. Trust in God. Have faith in his redemptive power. and your experience will become a beacon of hope and inspiration for others. God's ways are always better than ours, and he will always turn evil into good. If you let him. Thank you for being here today. Everyone. God bless.

Hello, everyone. Welcome back to FORLOVENESS. I'm Taylor. And I'm Ryan. How's your morning been? It's been really good. It started yesterday. Really? On this episode. I've got a lot of stuff. I had to write some notes down because there's no way that I would be able to remember it all and get it out. Yeah, some of these things I'll probably read today. Yeah, it's a lot, but it's going to be really good. I think so too. How about you? How was your morning? It was good. But during my prayers this morning, God told me that the world needs help. And he told me that there's a lot of people that don't know him. And it's time for us to get out there and start introducing people to Jesus. That's funny you say that because I actually got that same message yesterday. I do want to start today with the greatest commandment. It's going to be. That's a good one. Matthew 2237 through 39 it says, and he said to him, you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind. This is the great and first commandment, and the second is like it. You shall love your neighbor as yourself. I really want to look at and break down the end where it says, you shall love your neighbor as yourself. Okay. When we think about loving ourselves normally, we think we're going to do something for ourselves. We're going to do good for ourselves. We're going to make sure that we have everything that we need and we want very self-help, be very selfish. But when I think about it, I think that there's something deeper here. Loving ourselves. Right. What is. What does that look like? Especially when we don't feel like we deserve love. We need to talk about forgiving ourselves. Guilt, shame. And it's really a heavy burden that a lot of us carry. And it's not a personal struggle, but it's a spiritual one. We need to take some time to look at what it actually means to live in the freedom that was bought for us. Yeah, I couldn't agree more. And that's sort of where this journey started for me. I was struggling with my faith. I was trying to get closer to God that something was holding me back. Something was stopping me. Was something inside my own head, really? That was stopping me. And it was guilt. A big part of the push forward for me was to forgive myself for things that I was holding on to, that I didn't even realize were causing me a big deal. I think when we talk about forgiveness, as we have, it's been about forgiving others for the most part, and we haven't looked at turning that inwardly and forgiving ourselves. It reminds me of the story of the Samaritan woman. Yeah. In John chapter four. It's an interesting story because one, this is the first time Jesus actually reveals himself to be the Messiah to anyone. The disciples assumed, people assumed, and they'd seen his miracles. But this is the first time that he actually spoke that. In verse 26 he said, I who speak to you am he? Yeah. She was a, the Samaritan woman was a woman who had she was considered unclean even by her own kind. She was ridiculed by everyone. She had a bunch of husbands, and it wasn't so much that she had all the sin. She definitely believed that there was a messiah coming. But she had she was so consumed with her own guilt and burdens on her own self that she just couldn't handle it. Know it was really causing her a lot of pain and a lot of suffering. Yeah. And I started thinking about this because the Bible doesn't seem to touch on forgiving yourself much. I think it does, but I don't think that we get taught that very often. Yeah. It's deeper. Yeah, it is much deeper than than surface. So one thing is Jesus came to her when he's talking to her. She wasn't sick of anything. It was her own ailment. And it was a spiritual and emotional burden. It wasn't a physical ailment. It was inside. Right. She had a fractured life. She had social isolation. Things that we deal with currently, a lot of us. Right. And Jesus knew her full story. Just like Jesus knows our full story. Right. He didn't condemn her. He engaged her. He talked to her. And he offered her the greatest gift that he ultimately gave to all of us. Right. Because I mean, when she went to the well to get the water, which is where Jesus was, she went there at a time that nobody else would go because she felt so ashamed of herself, and she felt like she she didn't deserve or couldn't be around other people she was hiding. That's right. And the healing of her guilt was a direct result of her being fully known and accepted by the Messiah, which is interesting because she accepted him. He accepted her, and she was she was already there before any of us were. And then she was free. Yeah. Free from her own guilt. She she just rejoiced. She went running off back to the city. Yeah. Just proclaiming that the Messiah is here. What did she say? Here's this man that told me everything I've ever done. Yeah. That's exactly what it says. And she, she immediately was filled with immense joy. Yes. He came there and he just freed her the new identity. And before meeting Jesus she was defined by her past and the community's judgments. But then after this encounter she was transformed from an outcast to a witness. She wasn't the woman with five husbands anymore, but the first person who Jesus actually revealed is Messiah too. Yeah, I mean, it. It really is such a beautiful story, and we don't typically get that guilt part out of it. You know, that's not something that's not a way that that story is, is talked about. No. It says in Hebrews 1022 it says let us draw near to God with a sincere heart and with the full assurance that faith brings, having our hearts sprinkled to cleanse us from a guilty conscience and having our bodies washed with pure water. And just like Jesus did for her, he cleansed her. He also cleanses us of our guilt and shame. Absolutely. To put it more in today's perspective. It's like when a man goes in front of a judge for a crime, for dead. He could never repay the judge pronounced the debt paid in full by his own son, declaring him free. Okay. But the man leaves the courtroom and he still continues to live his life as a prisoner. He works endless hours and works a second job. Deposits just pennies into an account against the debt he could never cancel. He wore old clothes. He denied himself any joy, believing he didn't deserve anything. Then some slick lawyer. The prosecutor. Original one tracks him down and he says, oh, you're still that debtor. The judge may have said otherwise, but look at your crimes. You should be in chains, right? And the man agreed, doubling his efforts to pay whatever was already settle. He was exhausted, bitter, hopeless. Forever haunted by these accusations. He remained technically free, though he lived in a prison by his own making, from the guilt that he built on his own, from a debt that no longer exist. Listening to an accuser whose power had been stripped by the judge's decree to refuse the freedom of the verdict is to remain in the accusers grip. So if we think about it like this, the accuser, the prosecutor, that's Satan. And the judge who forgave him is gone. You know and this man didn't accept that not guilty verdict. He just sat in it and he listened to the the prosecutor when he came back to him and agreed with him that he was guilty and he should be shameful and that he should live in this prison not remembering. Again, this is important, not remembering that the judge forgave him. And you know what is the danger of holding on to guilt after God has already forgiven you? Well, the danger is not about mustering up some feeling of self-love. It's about faith. And we all know that the devil is the accuser. He's the ultimate accuser. Yeah I think that's what this is all about. Jesus died for us and forgave all of our sins. And with that comes we've refused to do it. And there's quite a bit of in the Bible about this warning that leaving this door open is actually allowing Satan to come in. Yeah. You know, you're giving him a foothold to come in and get, get Ahold of you. These are some of the things that I had written down that were just so good. So the apostle Paul understood this in Second Corinthians. He urged the church to forgive a repentant brother. And he gives this reason so that we would not be outwitted by Satan, for we are not ignorant of his designs. One of the Satan's primary designs or schemes is to use unforgiveness as a weapon. Yes, he knows that he can get you to hold on to bitterness and resentment, whether towards others or towards yourself. He can gain a foothold in your life. Ephesians four warns us not to let the sun go down on our anger, so we don't give the devil a foothold. Yeah. Think of it like this. Unforgiveness is like believing a door in your heart and locked in wide open when you refuse to forgive someone else. You're essentially inviting. You're essentially inviting bitterness, anger, and spiritual poison to come in and make themselves at home. The same exact principle applies when you refuse to accept God's forgiveness for yourself. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you can't you just can't sit in that. It'll it'll just allow the devil to pull you away from God. So how do we handle this? Well, the Bible actually gives us clear answers in first John chapter three. By this we shall know that we are of the truth and reassure our heart before him. For whenever our heart condemns us, God is greater than our heart, and he knows everything. So the solution isn't to try harder to forgive yourself. The solution is to give it to God. Your heart, your feelings, your emotions. Yeah. They're not the final judge. God is. He's greater than your heart. He knows everything, including the fact that your sin has been paid for and your slate has been wiped clean by the blood of his son. Well, and so if you think about it like this. We know that our guilt and shame comes from the persecutor, which we talked about is the devil. Yes. We cannot we can't beat the devil by yourself. We all know that. Everybody knows that we've talked about this. And so we have to give it to God, because God is the only one that can read us of Satan's hold, right? It's a conscious choice to stand on the truth of God's Word, even when you're screaming the obvious that you you know that you're guilty. You know all these things. You're hearing all these whispers and accusations from Satan. But you need to look at the cross and say, it is finished. It's paid. Get behind me, Satan. I stand under the verdict of the righteous judge who has declared me free. There's no condemnation for me because I am in Christ Jesus. Yeah, I mean, that is the whole point. Jesus. He washed us from our sins. He cleansed us. All of our guilt and shame is gone because of him. And we must accept that freedom. You know, if we're holding on to guilt and shame, it tells us that we have not understood or accepted the forgiveness of God in our hearts, which unfortunately leads us back to our first episode in the question of true salvation. Yeah for sure. That's an interesting point, because the main thing in that episode is an unforgiving heart is an unforgiving heart. Does that apply to this as well? I think so definitely. You have to forgive yourself also. You do. Living in the freedom of forgiveness. True deep soul level forgiveness isn't about pretending your sin never happened. It's about recognizing that your sin has been fully and completely dealt with by the only one who can. It's about honoring that sacrifice of Christ by actually living in the freedom he died to give you. Because under the shadow of the cross, there is no room for condemnation. There's only forgiveness, freedom, and a new beginning. That's sort of what happened with the Samaritan woman in the first place, right? She knew there was a messiah coming. Maybe you can read some of that in a minute. She knew there was a messiah coming when she said that, he knew she was a believer. I wonder if that's why he reveals himself to her. Because when we actually believe and ask Jesus to come into our hearts, surrender ourselves to him, he forgives us instantly. Yeah, that's what she said, she said. John 428 says the woman said to him, I know that Messiah is coming. He who is called Christ, when he comes, he will tell us all things. Jesus said to her, I who speak to you am he. That's so beautiful and it's beautiful. I'm glad to hear that. I can't even read that without first. It's hard. Yeah. It's so powerful. Okay, I'm going to just share a few things that God put on my heart to get out for this particular episode. That seems to be as we've gone. Really an important point to get across to people, because we've been talking about this entire time for giving others. We have just today started getting into forgiving ourselves. And this is going to be very important as we continue and we get deeper into these lessons. So God put on my heart a few things. One was on condemnation. There is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. That is Romans eight. Verse one. To live in Self-Condemnation is to call this truth a lie. It is the place yourself under a verdict that God has removed. It is saying that if you are still condemning yourself for giving yourself, you are. You don't believe God. You are putting yourself above God. You're saying I know better than you, right? And you don't. So if you're if you're truly a believe, if you're truly a Christian, you need to really hear this. You've got to forgive yourself and learn to forgive yourself and give it to God on the accuser. Then I heard a loud voice in heaven saying, now the salvation and the power of the kingdom of our God and the authority of Christ have come for the accuser of our brothers has been thrown down, who accuses them day and night before our God. That's revelation 1210. Satan's primary role against believers is the accusation. He reminds you of your guilt and shame constantly. He feeds it. And I've touched on this already, but it's you know, about unforgiveness. Paul commands forgiveness for others so that we would not be outwitted by Satan, for we are not ignorant of his designs. Let's second Corinthians to verse 11. The designer's theme is to use unresolved relational debt to create bitterness, which gives him a foothold. It's in Ephesians chapter four, verse 26 and 27, meaning that any unforgiveness gives Satan a foothold to us. The same scheme applies if Satan can use your unforgiveness towards others to create a stronghold of bitterness. He can also use your rejection of God's forgiveness. God so powerful and use your rejection of God's forgiveness to create a stronghold of shame and despair when you agree with his charges. You grant his accusations power in your life. You're defeated not by sin, but by your own unbelief in the gospel solution for that sin. Wow. It's crazy. That is so powerful. This is the biblical response to a condemning heart. By this we shall know that we are of the truth and reassure our heart before him. For whenever our heart condemns us, God is greater than our heart, and he knows everything. It's first John chapter three, verse 19 and 20. The solution is not self forgiveness, but appealing to that higher court, God's own character and promise, and finally holding onto guilt opens the door to demonic activity. It is the direct result of siding with the accuser against the verdict of the justifier. The battle is one of faith, believing God's judgment over your own sin in Christ. Painful over the feelings of accusations that scream otherwise. So that's really about all today. That's so important. We really, truly have to forgive ourselves. So what are we talking about next time? The next lesson is the cost of grace that was earned and how the New covenant required something more, giving us that perfect payment for all of our debt through Christ. I love that. I think that's going to be really good. We can't wait to talk to everybody next time. Thank you for coming and spending time with us today. God bless.

Hey, everyone. Welcome back to FORLOVENESS I'm Taylor. And I'm Ryan. How are you today? Pretty good. I'm actually in a fast right now, so I'm getting a little fatigued today. Yeah. It's your first day, though, right? It is my first day. I'm only about. I'm not quite 24 hours in. Actually. I'm sad. I'm not going to be able to partake in this fast with you. I'm going out of town. Yeah, this is going to be one of my longer ones that I've ever done. Actually. Your longest, Yes. It'll be over 90 hours closer. Closer to 96 hours, I believe. How do you feel about that? I feel good excited. This is be my fourth fast. In the last, six months or so, I noticed last time that I fasted, you know, by the end of it I felt so close to God. Yes. Especially if you're doing a fast like a spiritual fast like this is it becomes a lot easier to hear God and a lot easier to understand what he's saying. Yeah. As opposed to getting in the way with your own thoughts or the enemy getting in you kind of takes everything else out, right? And only leaves room for him and his works for me it does. At least that's my experience and others that I know that I've done. This is the same way. Yeah. You have a trip coming up that is spiritually difficult. And that's part of why this fast is occurring. I, I prayed this morning and sort of heard that this is what needed to happen to protect you. And keep you strong during that. So since I can't be with you in, in person, I'm going to be with you in spirit this week. Thank you. What are we talking about today. We're talking about forgiveness not being permission. And what that means is basically we we talked in last episode about an unforgiving heart is an unforgiving heart. And that if we are not for giving people the way that we were forgiven, our salvation is in question, in question. Absolutely. Yeah. And again, not that we can lose it, it's that we never actually had it if we still hold on to these things. Yeah, I think that's an important distinction. And this is not likely going to be the longest episode, the longest lesson. But it's an important one because forgiving people is more something for you. It's a transaction of your heart. It's, you know, it's an internal act of grace mirroring God's forgiveness for you. But trust and reconciliation is between you and the person that hurt you. So it's a whole different thing. I think it was important when I was getting all this stuff downloaded from God. This is one thing that came, and I struggled a little bit with it, because it makes sense to me. But I know that it doesn't make sense to everyone, and I think people can even use this as a weapon that has been used as a weapon in certain abusive type of relationships to silence a victim or people get confused. Well, I have to forgive. I have to forgive. And that doesn't mean forgetting and leaving yourself in a bad situation. Yeah, I mean, you still have to. You still have to protect yourself and protect your heart. One of my favorite verses, actually, is Proverbs 423 and it says, keep your heart with all vigilance, for from it flow the springs of life, you know, and basically, what's that? What that is saying is that you still have to guard your heart in forgiving someone, doesn't always mean that you allow them to keep hurting you, right? For sure, forgiveness and trust are two completely different things. One is about canceling that debt, but it's more for you, right? Right. We're called to forgive that we are not called to stay in a bad situation. One is God given command and one is more about wisdom. Yeah, he doesn't want us to be hurt in the. Can you read Proverbs 22 three for me talks about prudence that says the prudent see danger and take refuge. But this simple keep going and pay the penalty. Yeah. So that's saying still need to forgive, but be wise and don't enable the sand. Don't ignore the danger. It's very clear right there that it's saying, you know, boundaries are okay. You don't need to force reconciliation, especially if they're unrepentant. Absolutely. Forgiving is just Christ like grace. And the second is Christ like wisdom. One does not negate the other for sure. And there's also the times that you have to think about safety. It's a big thing, especially for the people that are in unsafe relationships. Just because you forgive them doesn't mean you need to stay with that person. It doesn't mean that you need to continue to talk to that person. Yeah, and this is been used as a weapon to keep people in abusive situations, silencing victims, especially someone that is new to Christianity, that has been in these bad situations and they're really looking for peace in their life, someone to help them. They feel they have to forgive live and let live and move forward and stay in that relationship because they think they love them. And maybe they do. But God still makes it clear we are to protect ourselves. And people use this to distort the gospel. And that's not what it's that's not what it's supposed to be for. Yeah, yeah. I mean, we have this saying that is all just pounded in our heads. Forgive and forget, right? But in reality, that's not what we should be doing at all. Correct. Like I said, there are two completely different transactions. And we talk about forgiveness and reconciliation and how those are completely two different things. Forgiveness happens in your heart. And you said earlier that reconciliation is about building that trust and rebuilding that relationship with them first. And foremost. I mean, you should always go to God, right? Yes. Should always go to him. Reflect on the relationship, pray about it. If you feel that it's right, then go to that person and you can start to rebuild that trust. As long as they're repentant though, right? Do you think remembering can sometimes actually protect us? Yeah, they're matters of wisdom and practice. Okay. There are external actions to prevent further harm. That's why we are able to remember even when we forgive. That does not mean we should forget. Okay. This keeps us from enabling the sin and ignoring the danger. And we can learn from that too, right? Certainly. Let's look at Luke 17 three. Can you read that for me? Real fast? Yes. Luke 17 three says, if your brother or sister sins against you, rebuke them. And if they repent, forgive them. That process involves confronting the sad. And then linking the full relational reconciliation to repentance. So while we've been saying forgiving doesn't mean we have to forget if someone is truly repentant like they're saying here, if they if they're really feeling in their heart, truly, then mend that relationship again, right? It's okay to do that. Just because someone hurt you doesn't mean you have to never see them again, or talk to them again, or cut them out of your life. There's plenty of examples that we all do in our own life every week, and I think that if that person is truly repentant, then there's going to be some change happening in them. Absolutely. Forgiveness is something that we grant inwardly. It's for us. But trust is rebuilt through that demonstrated change that you're talking about, you know, and that doesn't mean that you don't still have to set boundaries. You can rebuild a relationship while also having some boundaries at the same time, too, you know? Yeah, you have to be wise. You don't enable the sin. You require that repentance for reconciliation, but in that consequences for your protection. And it may be that you just take a step back from someone, or that you aren't as good of friends with someone as you thought you are because they did something to hurt you, and you still love them and care about them and want to spend time with them. But that trust needs to be rebuilt. Yeah, and as in any relationship, trust needs to be rebuilt with usually with time. Yeah. I mean, I know we talk about Matthew 1016 a lot. Do you want to read that? Yeah, that's a good one. We actually talked about that yesterday. It says I'm sending you out like sheep among wolves. Therefore be as shrewd as snakes and as innocent as doves. Sure. Just meeting prudence, which we talked about, discerning and practical. Protecting yourself and your loved ones from harm, is a God given responsibility for giving a thief. Doesn't mean you give them the keys to your house, right? Yeah. And I think that that should really be freeing, knowing that you can truly forgive someone from your heart, not commit that sin yourself of not forgiving, releasing that anger to God, but also saying, okay, I'm going to set boundaries. I'm going to stay safe in. We're either going to practically rebuild trust and slowly rebuild a relationship, or I cannot have a relationship with you. Absolutely. This is your freedom, right? It's when you forgive, you're stopping that poison of bitterness in your soul from just rotting there. It releases you, and it's an exhausting job of being a judge and jury. Anyways, forgiveness is about your past. It's refusing to let what someone did to you continue to live in you. That's a really good way of putting it, actually. And I think it's important that we recognize that it's two things here that we're talking about a heart of mercy that forgives, but then also a mind of wisdom that protects. This is where the freedom is, right? We forgive, like you said, canceling that debt. But it's not the same as approving someone for a new like line of credit. And then that kind of brings us full circle to that trust. When you trust someone, you're handing them something valuable, right? You're vulnerability, your heart, your safety, your secrets and then believing they're going to handle it with care. Yeah. Forgiveness is that gift you give because of what God has done for you. Yes, trust is the wage they have to earn based on what they have done. Yeah. So what would you say to somebody who may not know what setting those boundaries look like, or may not be able to set those boundaries? Somebody that maybe works with somebody who is hurting them spiritually or emotionally and can't exactly just cut off a relationship. They have to see them every day. Something like that. Well, you can't foolishly trust someone like that. Yeah. You have to first obviously is always pray get into worship, give it to God, ask for his guidance and he will more often than not give you that guidance. But you still have to be prudent. You'll have to guard yourself. Yeah. Jesus had a habit of kindness in turning the other cheek, and he doesn't mean really turning the other cheek to let someone hurt you. He just means sort of taking that power away from them and understanding that they have something going on in their life that is causing this behavior. And he would show them kindness if they weren't right. If they did not receive that he was okay with it, he would just continue on with his day. You can't let people walk all over you, but that doesn't mean you should engage in their activity. Setting boundaries. Setting healthy boundaries can mean if you're talking about work, it can mean honestly asking for a transfer. It could mean having to go to HR. God put these systems in place for this type of thing. If you're talking about a relationship or maybe a spouse or the children involved, you have to do the best that you can to them. And more often than not, someone or both people in that relationship, the adults in that relationship, are not always going to act right. Sometimes they're going to be hurt or bitter. They need to forgive. But if they're not in the gospel, they're not likely to do that. So that's where your job is to forgive them, and release some of that judgment from you. But you don't have to let them back in to hurt you in that way. Is that make any sense? Yeah. No, that was great. And I think the key takeaway from that is taking it to God and praying. And the more time you spend with him, the clearer you're going to be able to hear him. Yeah. And if you're in a situation like that where it is just impossible, it doesn't mean you have to let them in fully. You can rebuild this relationship to where you can trust them in certain aspects. Very carefully, wisely. But you don't have to let them completely back in because it's many opportunities to hurt you, right? That's just treating them how to treat you. And if you allow someone to constantly be wronging you, they're going to continue to wrong you. Yeah, it's almost as if they can't help it. Right? So hopefully if you treat them with kindness and you have forgiven them and you build that relationship back slowly over time, potentially they can prove that they're a safe investment again. And you can you can give them a little bit more and a little bit more. It doesn't mean that you will. And you certainly don't have to really. The only thing the main lesson in this is you have to forgive, but you don't have to forget, and you do not have to reconcile with someone. If you don't want to. But if you need to, there's ways to do that safely, healthy, respectfully, biblically, biblically, for sure. And that helps us to move on. So just we're called to forgive, but we're not required to reconcile at all. Yeah. And I know this is a short sort of episode that we have here, but I was and I toyed with combining it, but I prayed really hard on it. And God wanted me to make sure that this came out separately as we go. As this series continues, this is going to be this particular lesson is going to get extremely, extremely important. Yes, we still are going to be commanded to forgive some very difficult things that we're going to discuss. Yeah, but we are not going to be required to forget them. Yes, I think that's a slippery slope. Depending on the situation for you, because if you're remembering things, are you even able to forgive? Yeah, but you are. You're good Christian. You stay in the word. You pray to God, give it to God. He knows if you truly repentant or not, if you truly are forgiving or not, he knows you can say the words all you want, but he actually knows what really is going on. So that's why I did this as a standalone episode, because I didn't want it to get lost in in the other messages, and I was afraid that it would. So yes, it's short, but it's possibly one of the most important lessons in the entire series. Yeah, it's very important and I'm glad that we got to talk about it today. Thank you so much for being here today. You want to talk about next week at all next week going to be good next week. We're going to be talking about forgiving yourself. Yes. For giving yourself under the cross is what we named it. It is very powerful. It's my favorite one so far because of the personal connection that I had. And this is actually where this entire thing started. It's a good one. Definitely don't want to miss it. Thank you so much for being here today, everyone. God bless

That intro music gets me every time. Yes, I know you say it every time. Hi, everybody. Welcome to ForLoveNess I'm Taylor. I'm Ryan. How was your day? It was pretty good. How about you? It's good It's been a hectic morning. Got a lot of information. Yeah. Today Yeah. I think he told me a lot, actually. He told me he has prepared. Trained both of us, I guess a little bit to be able to get this message out. Because most of these words are from him and things that that he's put on my heart and actually said to me that he wants to get out. And that he feels that people are not understanding. People aren't getting the point. So yeah. Okay. So let's start with the first question then why forgiveness. Right I think that's the main point. This morning as I was praying and asking for a little bit more guidance on this and got this first part of it is why forgiveness. I wasn't sure how to word it. We we've gone over Scripture and we've talked about this a lot. But then it came to me and I asked you what was the point of Jesus even coming here? And you get lots of different answers. Salvation. He came to forgive our sins. Which is the big one as I was, you know, working through this and praying and reading more. I got so many verses about forgiveness and it sort of I realized that's what he's wanting me to really get across. As opposed to that one message that when I first got this calling right, what he told me, and I think that was as much an act of obedience on my part as it is for later as this progresses, to get people that really understand what real forgiveness means. And it's not about your feelings or the other person's worthiness. It's a spiritual necessity based on based on the works of Jesus. Yeah. I mean what you, what we talked about this morning, that was it was definitely a different way of looking at it that it kind of hit us a little different than it has before. Very much. We talked about some of the same verses that we've talked about. Kind of looked at them with a different perspective, and it really changed things for sure, especially that second part that I said. Yeah, I, I went through my Bible this morning and I actually got the Bible up and I looked kind of searched for forgiveness and you know of course I get lots of Old Testament and New Testament, but they're all really centered around that same thing. And we have to forgive. Yes. As we were forgiven, the parable of the unforgiving servant of the unmerciful servant. That's a good one. Yeah. Yeah. Matthew 18, verses 21 through 25. And the king forgives a servant his debt of 10,000 talents, which is a large, large sum of money in today's world. And that same servant, then refuses to give forgiveness to a fellow servant for a small debt of 100 denari. Which is a really manageable sum. Back then. And the King's response is to point, you know, you wicked servant, I forgave you all that debt because you pleaded with me. Since you have not shown, the same mercy to your fellow servant. Then the servant is handed over to torment and he's still in jail. And so can you. Can you read that? Yeah. For me. Can you actually start out or peer first he goes to Jesus and asks about the forgiving the brother because that's I'm going to touch on that as well. So start from there down. Then Peter came up and said to him, Lord, how often will my brother sin against me? And I forgive him as many as seven times. Jesus said to him, I do not say to you, seven times, but 77 times. Therefore the kingdom of heaven may be compared to a king who wish to settle accounts with his servants. When he began to settle. One was brought to him who owed him 10,000 talents, and since he could not pay, his master ordered him to be sold with his wife and children, and all that he had, and payment to be made. So the servant fell on his knees, imploring him, have patience with me, and I will pay you everything. And out of pity for him, the master of that servant released him and forgave him. The debt. But when that same servant went out, he found one of his fellow servants who owed him 100 denari, and seizing him, he began to choke him, saying, pay what you owe. So his fellow servant fell down and pleaded with him, have patience with me, and I will pay you. He refused and went and put him in prison until he should pay the debt. When his fellow servant saw what had taken place, they were greatly distressed, and they went and reported to their master all that had taken place. Then his master summoned him and said to him, you wicked servant, I forgave you all that debt, because you pleaded with me, and should not you have had mercy on your fellow servant, as I had mercy on you? And in anger his master delivered him to the jailers until he should pay all his debt. So also my heavenly father will do to every one of you if you do not forgive your brother from your heart. So what had dawned on me about this is we talk a lot about people that say, oh, I'm saved, so I'm good, but they don't really have that repentance there. They're not really saved. It's not really in their heart. And that's pretty much what he's saying here. And I was struggling with this a little back and forth because, you know, oh, I'm saved. But I know a lot of people that claim this claim to be saved claim to have even had a change of heart. Right. But they have bitterness and hatred in their heart and anger for someone that's done them wrong for something relatively insignificant. A lot of times sometimes it's a big deal, but it's not always. Yeah. And I sort of felt like is the scripture contradicting itself right? I know that that's not the case. That can't be the case. So I started digging a little bit more and even in the Lord's Prayer. For if you forgive others their trespasses, your heavenly father will also forgive you. But if you do not forgive others their trespasses, neither will your father forgive your trespasses. And I'm reading this and I'm sort of getting the same thing as before, because the parables verdict that you read, about the unmerciful servant, the king is represented God in this and his anger. His master's deliver him his jailers until he should pay all his debt. Jesus applied that to his followers. So also my Heavenly Father will do to every one of you if you do not forgive your brother from your heart. But if I accepted Jesus, my sins are forgiven. But is this telling me that that's not the case? I think that there is a lot of people who think that they're saved because they say the words, but they're not truly saved in their hearts. Right? And that's where I end up going, even looked at in Colossians 313, as the Lord has forgiven you, so also must forget, so you must forgive them. I mean, he, Jesus, commands us to forgive over and over and over. And there are a lot of warnings in the Bible of what will happen if you don't forgive. That's correct. And that is why forgiveness matters so much. Jesus clearly teaches that on truth, faith in Christ, a person is justified, declared righteous, and sealed for salvation. In John 524, truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life. This says we are. We're guaranteed salvation if we're if we're accepting him, if it's truly in your heart. And there's something that I mean, I feel very strongly about this. I know that this is true. When you are truly saved in your heart and you love Jesus, you want to obey him. You want to you want to do everything that you can to obey His Word and be in his good graces and do what he wants to do and live your life for and through him. Right? And so this is where it sort of takes a turn. And I think this is important, I think this is part of the message that, that God wanted me to, to speak on is a forgiven person forgives. The unforgiving heart reveals an unforgiving heart. That's really really important. Yeah. You know when I, when I say a forgiving person forgives a person who has truly comprehended the weight of their own sin and magnitude of God's grace, forgiving it from a transformed heart, but refuses to extend that same grace to others as first John 420 says, if anyone says I love God and hates his brother, he is a liar. By not forgiving, by holding that animosity, that hatred in your heart, that bitterness you are you're lying to God when you sit there and tell people I'm saved. I'm a Christian, but you're holding some unforgiveness in your heart for something. You cannot truly be saved. And I know that's hard to understand. Yeah, but that is the entire reason Jesus was brought here was to forgive, like for us to have our sins forgiven. It was a sacrifice. It's the new covenant which we'll get into later on. But yeah, this is such an important lesson that seems to just get passed over a lot. So I'm not worried about her because she saved or, you know, I. I'm good because I'm saved. But are you are you really? Yeah. And in today we see this a lot. So the when I say the unforgiving heart reveals an unforgiving heart. This is a, you know, a hard truth of Christ teaching in Matthew 615 and 1835. What you just read, a person who willfully, persistently and unrepentantly refuses to forgive is demonstrating that they have not truly submitted to the gospel. Yeah. That is a big issue, right? Right. We we are lying to ourselves or lying to God. And perhaps it comes from a good place where I guess it does show that we're seeking salvation. We just don't know how to do it on our route. Right. And I'm not sure that we can do it on our own. That's probably why Jesus came. So we will and that's why I said to him and give that to him. That's why we have the Holy Spirit. Yeah, because there is what we want, meaning what our flesh wants. And there is what God wants. And we cannot do what God wants without the Holy Spirit, right? Without that transformed character. This goes back to the the unmerciful servant. It's not about a man who lost his forgiveness. It's about a man who, by his actions, never actually had it. Right. And that really sticks with me. It's not about his forgiveness. It's about he never actually even had his forgiveness. Therefore he could never have actually had any salvation. Right. So when we accept Christ we have to forgive it. We're called to it. It's sort of our. Thank you. To him for that. If we are not forgiving as we have forgiven, we are lying and we are not truly saved. Yeah. And that is a big message that I think, he wanted to get out. We're saved by grace through faith. But the faith that saves is a faith that inevitably produces the fruit of forgiveness. If you do not forgive, you will not be forgiven. It exposes a heart that does not genuinely receive the grace of God. It's a lack of evidence. It's not the cause of revocation. And this is I mean, it's clear as day, clear about God's grace, his forgiveness. We couldn't get it right. He sent his son. All we have to do is believe in him and do the things that he asks us to do. Worship God and love our neighbors, right? And forgiveness is the main point of this whole, this whole lesson here that that he's trying to get across. I mean, that's why he he was sent here, and that's what he does, right? And for us to not forgive basically is spitting on the cross and saying it wasn't worth it. And it also is putting us above him, above, you know, above God, above his judgment, above everything. Yeah. Because we don't forgive and his standards and his. Yeah. And we have to do that. We are commanded to do that. Anyway. That's it. That's all I had to get across today was why forgiveness? Why it's so important? We are forgiven. You can't lose your salvation. But if you never actually had it. That's where I think that's where we have to really look hard at ourselves and make sure that that's what we're doing. And if we hold bitterness in our heart, we need to reevaluate that. We need to re surrender our to Christ and we need to try harder to walk in that light. No matter what the sin is, no matter what they've done to us or someone we love and care about, we have to forgive. We are called to. God will handle the judgment. God will handle all the anger that you've got. You just have to give it to him now. Right. We can't decide when we want to obey Christ's word. No, we absolutely cannot obey everything. We can't pick and choose all the time. And I think that that's going to be a really hard thing for people to, to come to terms with. Well, it's going to get a whole lot harder as we continue discussing. But that's the first real look that anybody will get from this. They all everybody says I'm probably guilty as well. Yeah. We say we forgive someone but we don't. And if we don't then we never actually were saved in the first place. If you want to be saved, if you're really convicted in your in your spirituality and your Christianity and your love of Christ, this is something that you have to do is law. You cannot be wishy washy about it. You have to do exactly what he's asking, and he is asking for you to forgive just as he forgave. And it's hard to do. It's something that's very hard to do. But we can do anything through Christ. Absolutely. So that's all. Next time we will touch on something that's important. Actually. Forgiveness. It does not equal forgetting. And how we use the Bible and the, the word of God to set our boundaries and, and make sure we stay safe in certain situations or, you know, more serious, not just a little, a little lie or deception from one of our friends or loved ones or somebody, something a little bit more serious. So a little bit heavier. But it's actually good because it commands us to be prudent as well as forgive. Oh that's it. All right everybody God bless. Oh sweet.

Hello, everyone. Welcome back to FORLOVENESS I'm Taylor. I'm Ryan. How are you today? I'm good. I'm still doing my Fast And I wanted to get this message out, it felt like it was very important. Yeah. I mean, we've been talking about forgiveness. How we're commanded to forgive as he forgave us. Forgiving others, forgiving ourselves and how we need to receive his forgiveness, how he has already paid for all of our sins. But I think we should dive into that payment and talk about the cost of grace that we didn't earn. In Ephesians two eight through nine it says, for it is by grace you have been saved through faith and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God. You know, we didn't do anything to deserve that. In Romans five eight it says that God demonstrates his own love for us. In this while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. He paid for it so that we don't have to. Right? You know, and we have a covenant with God. So have you ever signed a contract like for a new phone plan or at lease on apartment or anything. Yeah. And you read the terms. You, you understand the conditions you sign on the dotted line. Right. And that's for you to uphold your end of the bargain and they’ll uphold theirs. Right. Same as a covenant. Any contract. They're just like that. They set expectations and define relationships. Yeah. The first covenant, the one that was given to Moses on Mount Sinai was a contract that we had no chance of upholding. Yeah. Perfect standard. And we were imperfect people. Imagine you have a mirror and you're looking at it and you see every speck of dirt, every blemish, every imperfection on your face. The mirror is really good at showing you the problem. But can it wash your face? Of course not. It only reveals the dirt. And this was the old covenant, the law given through Moses, right? Yes. So if we look at Romans, Paul tells us that the law is holy and righteous and good. There was nothing wrong with the mirror, right? Right. The problem was the dirt. It revealed in us our sin so that law set God's perfect standard. But it didn't give us the power to meet it. Romans 320 says, by works of the law, no human being will be justified in his sight, since through the law comes knowledge of sin. So really, we had no chance to live up to the standard set, and we were going to pay the price for that. So what's the price? Jesus was the price. God had a plan to offer us a new covenant. Hundreds of years before Jesus, God spoke through Jeremiah, and he kind of tells us about that new plan. Yeah. And I'm paraphrasing a little bit here, but it's in Jeremiah 31 around 31, 35 and it says, behold, the days are coming, declares the Lord, when I will make a new covenant, I will put my law within them, and I will write it on their hearts. For I will forgive their inequity, and I will remember their sin no more. This was hundreds of years before Jesus. This wasn’t something carved in stone tablets. It was going to be written on our hearts. Yeah, and it would be something unimaginable under the old system. Total complete and final forgiveness. But what about the cost? So we have a new covenant. Yes. And it requires a lot. It required the ultimate. But it didn't require a lot from us. No, it doesn't require much from us. We just act like it does. It required a lot from God and from Jesus. Yeah. A permanent sacrifice for an infinite debt. So if we look up, if we look at even the Last Supper, Jesus is with his disciples. They're all sitting at the table together. He takes a cup of wine, and he looks at his friends, and he says to them, this cup that is poured out for you is the new covenant in my blood. So obviously that was symbolic, but it doesn't become symbolic. The next day, the blood of God's own son was the price. Yeah, that is what the signature on that contract was. Yes. The cost of our sin, our broken promises and our rebellion was not paid with the blood of animals. Like for the old covenant, which the book of Hebrews tells us, could never even take away our sins. Truly. Yeah, it was pay with the infinitely valuable blood of Jesus. That penalty for breaking the contract was death. And he paid for that himself with his own son. So that's amazing. Yeah. So what was the pay out of this new covenant? Well, it provided total forgiveness. And Hebrews 922 says it plainly without the shedding of blood, there is no forgiveness of sins. Jesus's blood was not a temporary fix. It was, you know, that was it. Yeah. Bible says secures an eternal redemption. Your past, present and future sins are nailed to that cross and remembered no more. I wonder if that's why I say that in my prayers every day. I ask God every single day to forgive the sins of the sins of yesterday, the sins of today, and the sense that I will definitely commit tomorrow. Yeah. Not saying that I know what I'm doing, and I'm doing it on purpose and asking for forgiveness every day. I'm really trying to cover the things that I don't even know you're doing wrong. Right? Yeah. I know we're not quite to that same standard when we don't know, but I feel like if I was going to if I found that I did something that I didn't necessarily know at the time, that was a sin. I still making sure I'm covered because I'm not trying to do anything. And I'm. And he know, I know, he knows. But I think part of that goes back to the hold ourselves accountable for not having the guilt in the shame. Yeah. And it's good to say it out loud, too. I think so, and that was a once and for all sacrifice for that. Yes. And it represents our sins being nailed to that cross and never remembered again. That's why when we talked about forgiving yourself, that's where that issue comes in. Because everything we've done is paid for by this, right? So we can't continue to hash over that. That is is just the enemy trying to make us feel guilty and whisper in our ears. And we just have to have that faith that this is the way things were. This was a new covenant, and this is how they work. And this is exactly how it works. And again, for us to argue over that point or take it lightly is a is a big issue, right? I mean, and it changes the heart too, right? Yeah. That's the second thing that it bought really. So if we remember the promise from Jeremiah that the law would be written on our hearts through the New covenant, God gives us the Holy Spirit. Yes. So beautiful. That's what changes us from the inside out. Yeah. It gives us that new nature, especially when when you first not say the words, but when you first really feel the Holy Spirit, you get that new nature, that new everything. And you're you say this all the time, that desire to obey God not out of fear, but out of duty, out of just desire and love and gratitude is so powerful. That's why everybody, everyone listening, that has a brand new saved friend and a lot of people shy away from compassionate. They're so passionate and they just want everyone they know and love to feel what they feel. And we just talked about this this morning. Yeah, it turns people off sometimes because it's so much that they're so overjoyed. Yeah. They can't they're so overjoyed that they can't contain themselves. And some people, while they're pushed away, some people really run towards that, especially the ones that need it. I mean, it truly is such a beautiful thing. And I heard someone say one time, when you're newly saved and you first get you first feel the Holy Spirit within you and you're in that, you're in that honeymoon stage. Yeah. That's how I heard it was described as. But I will say that after hearing that, I sat and I thought to myself, I don't want this to just be the honeymoon stage for me. I want it to keep going. I want to continue to be is passionate as I am right now for the rest of my life. Yeah. Holding onto that feeling is, honestly, it's such a euphoria that it is better than anything I've ever done. Yeah, it's better than any temptations I've ever succumbed to in my life. It's a better euphoric feeling that any drug I've ever done in my life, anything I've ever done, it pales in comparison to all of this. Which is why I think that striving for that eternal kingdom and all the rewards that we're promised there is so worth the weight. And it makes everything worth it all. Any pain that you had before, anything that was ever lost. When you find this feeling, it makes it all worth it. And another part of the reason why it feels so amazing is because it grants you direct access to God. And that's the third thing that at this point for me, you know, in the old temples they had a thick veil that separated the most holy places where God's presence dwelt. Yeah. And can you imagine not being able to have God's presence in you, with you? Yeah. It was a constant reminder that sin separated us from God. And it did. But the moment Jesus died, the gospel tells us that this veil was torn in two from top to bottom. The barrier was removed and because of the blood of Jesus we now have, we're not able to enter these holy places with confidence. We come directly into the presence of God. And I told you, I've gone out some mornings and felt alone. It's awful. I felt his presence was not there with me for whatever reason. I know that it was, but there were just there's been 1 or 2 mornings where I felt that, and it was it was horrible. I honestly may be more painful than I've ever felt any pain. Yeah, in my whole life. Yeah, but just a little faith and a little prayer brought it back home, thank God. Literally. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, there's there's nothing like being able to feel the presence of God with you in in you. It changes everything. So the cost was the penalty required by the covenant we broke. The wage of sin is death. But the New covenant is that God did not simply waive that cause. He took care of it. Actually got some words in my prayer the other day. I was asking about this particular lesson and God put something on my heart, so I wrote it down as I do a lot. Obviously these words aren't mine for the most part. Yeah, the good ones are not mine. And the rambling stuff is mine. Like right the second. So I wrote this down. I want to read it real quick. The cost of our sin was the death of Jesus Christ. He was the one that wrote the will, this new covenant that promised us an eternal inheritance. And as the book of Hebrews explains, it will only goes into effect when the one who made it has died. Jesus had to die for the blessings of forgiveness, the Holy Spirit, and eternal life to be released to us. The beneficiaries. So the grace you received was free. Yeah, but it was not, you know, it was purchased at the ultimate price. The violent, sacrificial death of the Son of God. To treat it as anything less is to completely misunderstand the gospel entirely. It's the most expensive gift ever given, and our only proper response is to receive it with just overwhelming gratitude. In nothing but all filled faith, and to live our lives in light of its infinite worth. Definitely. When I received this calling and God gave me this format and the things that he wanted to touch on, you know, forgiving and forgiving yourself, the permissions and and this the cost as we go on, things get really, really difficult. And I know that we all say that Jesus died for our sins, but we say it so often that I don't really know how much we understand it. Yeah. And this is really important because we're going to get into some very, very difficult discussions, especially in the sixth episode. Yeah. The next one, we're going to talk about the justice of a merciful God. And you will see how all of these played out in episodes one through five. When we get to six and seven, they're they're extremely difficult and they're sort of where this entire thing started. And I will do a long intro on six. That's really more of a two parter. It's where things get very difficult. So I wanted to try to convey how important that the cost of our grace was, and I hope we did that. It was a a big price that was paid. And we need to remember that every time that we're holding on to bitterness or anger, right, that we were forgiven. And we must forgive. And he's not asking much compared to what he did for us. He died for us. He's just asking you just let it go and let me handle it. Yeah, it's all he wants. He paid for everything. Yes. Enjoy your life here. As bad as it can be sometimes, because you have an eternal gift and a reward waiting for you. All you have to do is what I'm asking you to do. Accept this gift that I gave you. Truly accept it. And that's part. This is part of that having understanding what he really did for us. Yeah. And as you go about your week, I encourage you to really reflect on all of this, the forgiveness you hold, the access you have to God, the hope you have for eternity. It was all purchased for you at an infinite cost. Let that reality change the way that you see everything. Yes, I think that we talked about some good stuff this week. And like I said, I challenge you to take some time to really to really think about that and reflect. Next week we're going to talk about the justice of a merciful God. I hope that you all have a great week. Thank you so much for being here today. And remember, Jesus loves you.

Do you ever notice when we have these conversations off air, how easily. We've been talking about this all day. Actually, we've been talking about it for two days. Yeah. And we get on the mic, and we just like it flows so effortlessly. Yeah. Or at least it seems like that. Okay. Are you recording yet? I've been recording, Let me say something [...] Do you want me to start? No. Or I don't know. Okay. Try it. Hold on. Listen to this. I don't want to forgive them. I want them to hurt. I want them to feel exactly what they made me feel. And I. And if I forgive them, it feels like I'm saying what they did was okay, and it's not okay. I'm not going to let them off the hook. They don't deserve that. And I'm not doing it. What did you say? I've never thought of myself as an angry person. I'm sorry. I thought of myself as emotional, but pretty much every emotion except angry. More sad. Yeah. You're pretty laid back, actually. But when I get really anxious or something doesn't go my way. Oh, yeah. what does it manifest says in anger. I get angry. Yeah. I think the anger manifests out of frustration because we are not feeling heard or adequate or. Yeah. And we think holding on to that anger is how we collect that debt, how we protect ourselves and how we control our whole situation. We think our hatred is punishing them when it's actually just punishing us. We're the only ones having to suffer from that. Welcome to episode one, season two of FORLOVENESS This is Ryan, and I'm Taylor. I got it right that time. Awesome I think we're all liars. Actually, 100%. Every one of us. We go to church, we raise our hands, and we say, Lord, I just want to heal. I want peace. Yeah. It's it's really lie you don't want peace because it's boring. Yes. We need we need that drama in our life. Most of us need that drama. I don't want it. But I feel like at times I have it. Like I have a need for it as well. Well, it's an addiction. Pain to brokenness. We talked about this the other day. I want to be more broken than you are. Yeah. You know, we just really want to feel heard. And what I think we're really addicted to is that validation. Yes. The validation that I am hurt. The validation that I am. I'm great at something, even. It doesn't matter what it is. Just I need validation in something right? Well, in. It's unfortunate to say, but it's attention seeking as well. Because when you're the victim in your hurt and you go looking for that validation and somebody gives it to you, it makes you feel really good And if you continue to get that attention, and you're going to stay in that pain and you're going to sit in that pain what we're talking about this season is the anatomy of forgiveness. And we're going to start with the heart and move on to the mind and so on. We're going to take apart all the systems and all the things that we deal with, all the crap, and we're just going to pull it apart, call it what it is and give you the solution. Last season we talked a lot about why it's important and why God lets us suffer. And now we're going to talk about how to really move past that. Today we're talking about the heart and What is Jeremiah 17 nine? Say It says, the heart is deceitful above all things and beyond cure. So why does everyone go by the saying, the heart ones with the heart once. So I've just got a do what the heart wants. No, you should never do what your heart. It's a complete lie. Yeah. Follow your heart. That's what everybody says. That's the worst advice you can ever give someone, I think. Yeah. yesterday when I was going through these notes and putting things together, and I was thinking, it really is the worst advice you can give someone is follow your heart. Right it because it's based on your emotions. If I followed my heart, I'd be married to a stripper named Desiree. Okay, with two E's out of way, 400 pounds from eating cheesecake. Never follow your heart. It's it's extremely deceitful. As it says in the Book of Truth. What book is that? The Bible. Okay. You not scream at me though I feel like we need to start over. No. Come on. You just need to get back on track. I am not. Okay. Let me tell you something. The heart. I want to dive into this heart thing. The heart isn't. Listen to this. The heart isn't just prone to error. It's fundamentally dishonest and inclined towards evil. We like anger. When I'm angry, I feel like I've done something. I'm protecting myself. I'm in control of everything. Yeah. Even though I'm not actually in control of anything. I sit there and I'll play things back over and over my head of what I should have done, what I'm going to do next time. I'm plotting and planning, and it feels very powerful, doesn't it? It's not power, it's an addiction. And it goes really back to we need that constant dopamine hit. That's called validation. Yeah. We keep those wounds open on purpose because we're addicted to feeling like the victim. Yes. We live in that so much. Yeah. It feels good to be a victim. I don't know why. It shouldn't. It really shouldn't feel good to be. It feels terrible to be a victim. But We've got this emotion and we're getting attention. Yeah. From it. From other people. You know. Oh, I'm so sorry that you feel that way. Everybody wants to talk about you. It's a big sales tactic, right? You ask people about their self because people love to talk about themselves. Why do you think we can't let go? I think we. Think that if we let go, we'll look weak. That is true. That is true. You know what the hardest thing to actually do is? Let go. Forgive. Yes. Yeah. It's very easy. Any baby can throw a tantrum, temper tantrum, throw things. Cuss. Just be angry. Any. Any one is capable of doing that. But very few people are capable of letting it go. Staying calm. Staying calm. Letting God handle it. because we're conditioned that if we forgive, we're weak and we're letting people walk all over us and we can't do that. Let me tell you something. That's not us. That's not God that is coming from the enemy. He wants you to feel that way. Anger is a very powerful emotion. And it's so simple minded as well. Right It's. It's so easy. But in reality, you're just hurting yourself more to sit in that anger. You know what it's like when you're mad. You're sitting in that anger. It's like a warm blanket. You know, it's just keeping you warm and cozy. Made of cactus. It's like a warm blanket of cactus. Yeah. Is protecting you, but it's also hurting you. Yes it is. Yeah. It feels safer to be angry and furious to just admit that you're actually heartbroken and sad. But what are you afraid will happen if you stop being mad that they will have gotten away with it? I think which is not true. No, it's not true. They're never going to get away with it. In the eyes of God. The thing is, somebody wrongs us. Somebody cuts us off in traffic, for example. No harm is caused and there's no accident. you sit there and think. I want them to drop the phone on their face when they're laying in bed tonight. I want them to get fat. I want their whole life to be wrecked. I hope they get fired on their way to work. Yep. When they really do anything, maybe they don't even see you. Right. Do you think it's all about you? And it's really not about you at all? if you would switch your perspective and realize that that person cutting you off made you slam on your brakes? Made you two seconds delayed from what possibly could be a terrible accident right. And you causing it and being the idiot actually. Right. We do this all the time. We overreact. Okay. Picture this. I'm sure you can picture this. I'm in the kitchen. I'm aggressively loading the dishwasher because. Because your wife left the dishes in the sink? Yes. I'm aggressively loading the dishwasher, making all the noise I can so that everybody's got to know. Everybody in the building has to know that I'm doing the dishes. I'm doing I got this, I got it. I'll do it. I'll take care of. Don't worry. You go ahead and sleep. No problem. And in my head, I'm bringing justice. But I'm really. I'm just replaying the argument that I lost because you should have done this. Or it's my turn and I'm just in a bad mood. Right. And then you're making the other person angry at you and annoyed. And then. Then it's like a vicious cycle. Yeah. For sure. And does it actually make you feel better? No. Does it make you feel exhausted? It does make you feel exhausted. But we're addicted to that. High blood pressure. I think that I'm in control. I'm. I'm the one that's angry. and mad and I'm the one's going to slam the dishes the loudest. No one's going to scream the loudest And yell the loudest. So I win. Yeah. And I need to win. Actually, that's what I was going to say. do you think that you'll eventually win the argument if you continue to stay mad? 100%. If I let go of that grudge. I'm just a regular guy. Gross. So disgusting. Yeah. I want to be the victim. Yeah. The victim gets the VIP treatment. We'll talk about this in a few and a few episodes. I think even the next one where these labels that we put on ourselves are an enormous part of our lives and we don't even realize it. Well and then also we're trying to keep score. To make ourselves seem better than the other person. The moral high ground. Absolutely. But. All we're really doing. Is building this prison. Yup. And if you stop being angry, it's like you're betraying yourself and letting them off the hook. But it's the exact opposite. You know what the heart's really doing. I think gaslighting us It's gaslighting us to make us feel like we are somehow. Different than everybody else. That we are somehow special. Because what happened to us is worse than what happened to everybody else. And then you have You don't understand what I'm going through. Like, oh, it's annoying. Like you're a child. What was in service today about the movie unbroken. Oh, I'm sorry that you feel bad because you're late to work. Late to work? Got a flat tire? Somebody made you like to work? You got a flat tire? Were you a prisoner of war in Japan in World War two? You weren't. Okay. Sorry about your flat tire. Right? We don't realize everybody goes through stuff. Yeah, and we always want to be the worst because we need the attention we need. People feel bad for us. And we're focusing on that one little tiny thing that goes wrong. What a miserable way to go through life though. But if we stay angry we it's like we're putting on this armor and it's going to protect us. Not the good kind of armor. Not the armor of God. No. The, the. We should protect ourselves. And we talk about forgiveness and reconciliation are two separate, totally separate right things. They're relational, but they're not exactly the same thing. We can forgive to release ourself more than anything. Right. Do you go through a for love in a circle? That's what really happens. This happened to me yesterday on accident. Exactly. Reconciliation is. I've got to go talk to this person. They need to repent. If it warrants it. Yeah. And rebuild a relationship. But I think that reconciliation is more for them. We put that armor on and. We are protecting ourselves from everything. We don't let anything get close to us at that point because we've have broken trust and it's not always just something simple It could be a cheating spouse, it could be a betrayed, betraying parent, or it could be a lot of different things. We put this armor on to protect ourself, but what we're also not able to do is allow anything and allow God to come in or allow that anger and bad stuff to come out. Right. Exactly. We're basically just putting ourself in this container, but we're building this prison and we're the only one sitting in there. Yeah. Because again, we listen to the heart and the heart. Stupid. Yeah. And it's. You letting that armor. You taking that armor off and forgiving and not sitting in that anger. That doesn't mean that you're saying it's okay. It requires us to. Take that armor off and metaphorically. Okay. Don't do this. But just be there naked vulnerable. Yeah. It's it's terrifying. But spiritually, we really need to do that. Yes. When we remove that armor and open our spirit up and let Jesus come in and deal with it. There's such a massive change. There's such a weight lifted off your shoulder. So we did this FORLOVENESS Circle last night at my cousin's house, And we were walking through it, and I was giving him examples, and I released some things on my arm. I forgive myself, I could have been a better son. I could have been a better father. I could have been a better husband. And I was giving him examples. And I realized about 30s later that, wow, that really feels. I feel like that's been lifted off me quite a bit. It's a process. It doesn't just, oh, I did this and everything's perfect now because you let down that armor and you let it out. You got it out and I've talked to you about these things a bunch of times. I'm very open about it. But there was something about doing it last night in that it's FORLOVENESS Circle environment. That just opened me up to it was very different. It wasn't me speaking about it. Yeah. In conversation with you, it was me speaking about it in that setting and letting it go, which. And it wasn't even intentional. I was using it as an example to help somebody else share what they needed to share. Felt like they needed to share. But what happened was it opened me up and gave me this massive weight lifted off my shoulders and I just couldn't believe it, honestly. I knew that these worked and these were really helpful, but I didn't expect it to have the impact it had on me. Last night. Psalm 3418 says, the Lord is close to the brokenhearted and saves those who are crushed in spirit. All you have to do is let that guard down a little bit and let Jesus come in so that he can take away all your pain. He's right there waiting. We talked about this. This is not off topic completely, but divert a little bit. Sometimes we have to go through things a bunch of times in our life. We have to have multiple rejections, multiple failures, multiple everything that goes wrong. And we'll sit there and ask, why do we have to keep going through this? And the answer is because we didn't get it right the first 50 times. We're not learning what we need to learn, not learning. And he's trying to help us get through it. And once you let that guard down, and once you let him in and see what he's actually trying to teach you from this, you can't you can't go wrong. Right is if you're striving towards that, you can't do wrong. You said one time, I want to make sure I'm doing what God wants me to do. And I told you, if you're doing if what you are doing is intentionally for God because it's what you think he wants, you can't go wrong. He'll just maybe give you a course correction or just a little nudge in the direction he need you to go in, because we don't necessarily know exactly. But if you're trying to do that for God, yes, everything is going to get much easier the second you start being so overly concerned about yourself. That's where the problems occur. And if you'll look back at your life, everything's ever gone wrong is usually because you're doing it for yourself, right? It was your own. Very true. We talked last night was it's your own ambition. It's your own goals. Whatever it is that you want to do, and it may be even what you think God's plan is for you. But I assure you, what you think God's plan is is not God's plan. There are so many twists and turns. It is unbelievable. Yeah, and there's no way we could even try to keep up with it. We can barely keep up with our own daily lives, let alone all the lives. Interact with us on a daily basis. That's. That is God's plan. Yeah. And if you keep listening to your heart and following your heart and doing what your heart wants, you're never actually going to be able to get to God's plan. Which is the best plan? Way better than anything you could ever come up with. Okay, I want to get back to this. What's the real reason you think we don't want to heal? I think we want to feel broken a lot of times. I think we're scared to heal because with our trauma who are we. Yeah. It's that label. If you're not the divorced guy, the person who got. Abused or. The girl with eating disorder. Yeah. Or, you know. Hey, I'm Mike, I got fired in 2008, and I'm still talking about it, but that happens, that goes on all the time. Yes. And we flash these badges at the door of life expecting a discount. I do it too. We all do it. Yeah. Okay, I just learned this because we just started working on this episode, but I know it. I'm thinking, oh, my gosh, I've been doing this forever. Yup. And didn't even realize it because my heart has been gaslighting me the whole time that I need to preface my behavior with this label, right? I sound the way I sound. It's difficult to understand me because I have a brain injury. Truth be told, I always talk like this. I always have difficult to understand because that's just me. But I excuse my behavior, right? If I get angry, I excuse my behavior with that label. It could be right. There are definitely reasons that I behave in certain ways because of that. But I've said a lot of times that should not excuse my behavior. Right. It may help you understand, but it doesn't mean it's right. Doesn't mean it's okay that I do it. And if you continue to label yourself as that, you're never going to be able to heal from the pain of that label. You're never going to be able to heal from the pain of that hurt. You're just reliving it over and over and over again. And we said, we want to heal. And I think we do want to heal. But I also think that the enemy, the accuser, gets in there and tells you this is what you are. Yes. And we're terrified to let go of that title again, because who am I if I'm not this right? If I'm not a mom, who am I? If I'm not a dad? Who am I? There's a huge identity crisis. Yeah. we want to be this special person that is something broken or something more than we are. In reality, we're just the. The person's got to pay taxes, mow the yard and go to work. Well, we're God's children and that label should be enough. That's what we were made for and it should be enough. But in our life, in our society, nothing is ever enough, right? There's never enough money. There's never enough accolades. There's never enough validation. But that's the worldly way of thinking it is. And that's what we need to get away from. It is. And that's why we need to learn that the whole teaching of forgiveness in the Bible is, in my opinion, is the core teaching. Yeah. Love and forgiveness are the two the most important takeaways? Absolutely. And without it, we sit in this bitter, angry, miserable life. And that's exactly what the devil wants to get you on his side. And if he can get you thinking that way, he doesn't have to worry about you. Right? He didn't have to bother with you if you're going to take care of it yourself. Yeah, it sounds terrible, honestly, it does. But it's completely true. And the devil also wants you to think that it's not that big of a deal? He wants you to think, oh. it's okay. I'm just a little bitter. That's happened to me. It's fine. Yeah, right. But that's the lie. If you didn't lose that job, you wouldn't be listening to this podcast right now. You'd be in a cubicle pretending to work. Yeah. And that trauma is not really interesting to us. So we have to have that perspective shift. We have to shift that narrative. We've got to let go of that victim card. Yeah. Doing that doesn't make you boring. Being bitter and angry person everywhere you go. That's not cool. No, it's not. Move on. Right. It's heal It is. But yes, it's heal. It's exactly what it is. It's heal. It's embracing what God has for us. Next. as long as we sit in that bitterness, that anger, we cannot heal and we cannot go on to the next phase of our life that he has for us. So we're terrified that forgiveness means it didn't matter. We think if we stop being angry we're betraying ourself and they're getting away with it. Yeah. We think our anger is the only thing keeping score. That about right. That about sum up what we've got today so far. Yup. And in the end they fear if they stop keeping track they'll lose leverage. Yes. But God is not asking us to pretend it didn't happen. He's asking you to resign from that job and let him handle. Let him be the judge that he is. Don't take revenge. Because if we're the judge, honestly, if someone looks at you funny, you want to go to their car and that the punishment doesn't fit the crime, right? Yeah. We don't have the, What's the word I'm looking for at the capacity. Ability? No qualifications. I don't know what you're talking about, dude. Not integrity. I feel like it starts with an “I” We don't have the blank. Jesus. To To me, I can't do anything. To be fair to, Okay, okay. Okay. Romans 1219 says never take revenge. Leave that to the righteous anger of God. For God says, I will take revenge. I will pay them back. And we need to look at that as a relief that he's going to take over that that payment part and stop trying to be the karma police. We didn't use of any karma police. That's all we really do. We're terrible judges. We're biased. We're terrible podcasters, too, by the way. How do we start to heal. It's not going to be an overnight thing. Typically it's a process. So we have to continue forgiving. The person eventually we're going to learn to actually release that because chances are when you say I forgive Ryan, that you don't really forgive Ryan right You have taken a willing step to doing it. And that is where this all starts. You can't forgive until you're willing to even contemplate forgiving, right? So if you take that first step, then you release it. God will start to work in your life. And if you continue work in that process, it's going to get better. Yep. You just have to give it to God every single time. But we don't do that. Yeah. I think a lot of people do it once. They don't feel a change in their heart and they give up. And they just revert back. And you're giving up on your happiness, on your peace. On your joy. Who's the best physician? Luke Luke is the physician. I thought he was a doctor. God. Yes. Jesus is the best. He's the greatest physician we've ever had. All the medicine we need. every solution required in the entire universe is able to be found in the Bible. Okay. But we don't ever take that advice. We don't ever take that medicine. We don't have a get the solution right? Because it's not what we want or it's not what our heart wants. Exactly. Because we think we've got it. Imagine this. You got allergies, terrible eyes, itching, nose sniffing, throat scratchy. Can't handle it. And you sit there all day. All night. Every single day. Every single night. Miserably suffering from this. Okay. When all you have to do is get up, walk ten steps into the bathroom and get some Benadryl and take it. And in about 20 minutes, that's going to be gone. Yeah. But people will sit in your home and you'll say, hey, I'll get you some Benadryl. So your solution to my allergy problem is just to take some Benadryl. No, thanks. I enjoy the suffering Because we need to suffer. We don't want the easy solution. We don't want to take the medicine. We would just rather suffer. Because if I'm sitting here suffering with allergies, you're going to continue to give me attention about my allergies and have somebody to try to take care of you. Yeah. We need that. Well, that's part of the validation. If you're taking care of me, you're validating that I'm busted. Broken person And we're not turning to the only one that can actually heal you. So, Taylor, we've talked a lot about all the anger and how how bad it is to hold on to this. How are we supposed to start the healing process today? To start letting go and start feeling better about all this? Yeah. I want you to take a breath. I know you're tired and you've been carrying this anger because you think it protects you, but realize that it's just making you heavy I want you to picture the person who hurt you. And I want you to look at this anger. This debt, the apology they never gave you all of that. Imagine Jesus standing right there, and he's holding out his hand. He's saying you weren't made to carry this. It's crushing you. Give it to me. Whisper to yourself. God. I'm tired. I'm done keeping the score. I'm done trying to make them pay. I'm giving this to you. It's your problem now. I think that's a great way to start. You start by actually physically, verbally releasing this to him. As soon as you say it out loud to him, you'll feel better. It might not be completely gone, but you will feel better. So this week, I want everybody to try something. Just give it a shot. It's not going to hurt right? Do something physical. Say it out loud or get a piece of paper and write down the hurt, what they did, what they took from you. Whatever it is, it might be something that you've done to yourself. When we talk about, you know, the difficulty of forgiving ourselves for things. Write it down. Be very specific. What they did, they stole my 20s. They abandoned me. They betrayed me by doing this. Be very, very specific and then throw it away. Shred it. Burn it. Get it out of the house. Right. And it's really crazy how doing something like that can break that loop. Yeah. In the season two update last week, we brought up FORLOVENESS Circles. And what that is, is it's a quick start guide. We have currently on our link tree. There's a link to it in the in the bottom of the description. And we have a lot of changes coming up soon. There's going to be a website and a lot more resources for everybody. But right now we have this quick guided sheet. What's it called. Quick start guide. The quick start guide. Thank you And we want you to take a look at download it. It's totally free. It's got a lot of scriptures a lot of question. You know, how do I forgive someone who's hurt me? How do I forgive someone who's not sorry? And it will walk you through with an opening prayer, some scripture, a moment of sharing. And you can do this by yourself. And you can do this with a group of people. I encourage you to do it with a group of people. We did that last night. It was super helpful. Walk through it. You don't have to be a pastor to do this, I assure you. If you cannot tell from my voice, I am the least qualified person to be talking about all this stuff We just study a lot and God put it on our heart and he gave us a mission. This is part of that mission. We want you to gather up a few friends, text them, just tell them, hey, I'm trying to heal, trying to start this thing called a FORLOVENESS Circle. I know it doesn't make any sense, but let's give it a try. Let's see how it works and go through it. Start going through the process and lead it. It tells you everything to do. If you just follow step by step. Honestly, a monkey can do it. Anyone can do this. It's a really good guide and it truly is a useful tool when you're trying to heal and break. Forgive. You're trying to break this loop. This, this constant anger and constant bitterness that you hold resentment. It's a really useful tool. Absolutely. And it will guide you through step by step. Again, anyone can do this. You don't have to be a spiritual leader, a pastor, anybody. If you're a family at home, you can do this with you and your kids. If you're a if you're a dad that feels like you could have done better and wants to help explaining and apologize to your family and bringing them closer to God and you don't know how to do it, this will help you do that. Yeah, it's super easy to do. It doesn't take very long. I mean, it says that it can take 45 minutes, but honestly, it could take 15. It could take ten, it could take two hours. It just depends what everyone has to share. I do recommend you keep a limit on it and have another one the following week or the week after that, but that's a free resource you can download. There's more to come on that later, where we have a very large free again, everything's free for us certification for church leaders that want to bring this in into their actual congregations. More on that soon. But next week we're going to talk about the head. We're going to talk about the mind. And your brain is going to try to replay that argument over and over and over again, even after you after you've done this first release. But the heart feels that pain and that mind just continues to replay that movie in the shower, in bed at night. So next week we're going to turn off the projector. I'm Taylor, I'm Ryan. This is FORLOVENESS. See you all next week.

Speaker 1 I remember looking in the mirror and hating the person staring back at me. Speaker 1 To the world I looked. Discipline. But inside I was starving. Not just for food, but for control. I was terrified that if I took one bite, I would lose everything. The scariest part wasn't the hunger. It's that I liked it. Today I'm telling you the truth about what it really cost me. Speaker 2 Hey. Welcome to FORLOVENESS This is Ryan. Speaker 1 I'm Taylor. Speaker 2 So today we are talking about eating disorders and Speaker 2 I don't understand this. Speaker 2 I wanted to ask some questions to see if you could help me understand. Speaker 1 Yeah. I think that's common. Most people don't understand. People think Speaker 1 just eat. It's not that hard. Speaker 1 One of my doctors actually told that to my mom once. Well, crazy, Speaker 1 Yeah, but it's definitely it's much deeper than that. Speaker 1 And it's not it's not so easy. Speaker 2 can you take us back to Speaker 2 right before this all started? Speaker 1 Yeah. Speaker 2 looking back now and seeing what Speaker 2 opened the door to this whole thing. Speaker 1 I always struggled from a very young age with Speaker 1 body image issues. Speaker 1 I don't know exactly where that came from, but I do remember. Speaker 1 as young as 9 or 10 thinking I was fat. Really kind of, Speaker 1 picking clothes out that Speaker 1 would make me look skinnier. Speaker 1 And then Speaker 1 that only increased as I got older. Speaker 1 I think that's something that a lot of women deal with is that that issue, that lie of Speaker 1 you not looking good, Speaker 2 Who were you before this all started? Speaker 2 Simply trying to fit in the world. Speaker 1 Yeah, definitely. Speaker 1 That's something that I've always struggled with. Is feeling Speaker 1 liked or feeling wanted. Speaker 1 So I think definitely at that time that was my main focus, was trying to. Speaker 1 find friends and trying to feel like I fit in. Speaker 2 Since this is really about food and more about control. Speaker 2 Did your world feel chaotic and how did restricting food give you a sense of safety or control? Speaker 1 Yeah, my life was definitely chaotic. Speaker 1 Since I was little. Speaker 1 My dad wasn't Speaker 1 really in my life. He was in and out. Speaker 1 I moved around a lot as a kid. There were family members that were in and out of my life. Speaker 1 When I was young. Me and my mom moved states away from all of our family. Speaker 1 I moved schools almost every year Speaker 1 that's very chaotic for a young kid. There was not really, honestly, any sense of stability in my life growing up. Speaker 2 So this is something you feel like you actually had control over? Speaker 1 Yeah. Speaker 2 What do you wish you could have understood about that? Speaker 2 you could go back now, Speaker 2 what do you wish you could have understood? Speaker 1 I wish that I would have understood that. Speaker 1 I didn't need to look Speaker 1 to other people to feel. Speaker 1 Validated. Speaker 1 To feel Speaker 1 wanted. Speaker 1 I went to church some at that time. Speaker 1 I remember I have a friend who always tried to get me to go to youth group, but I didn't understand it at all. I didn't even want to go to church. Speaker 1 couldn't tell you a thing that was in those sermons. I definitely fell asleep during most of the time. Speaker 2 we often tell people to look to God for the answers. Speaker 2 But when we're hurting and we're in pain, Speaker 2 We try to fix it ourselves Speaker 1 Yeah. Speaker 2 Since I don't understand that a lot of people listening probably don't. What was a typical day like for you when, when you, when this first started. Speaker 2 When it began how you sort of acted and what you did so that if someone listening and maybe they have a loved one that's dealing with this, they can be on the lookout for these, these things and try to get them help before it gets too deep. Speaker 1 when it first started. Speaker 1 It wasn't Speaker 1 super bad. I kind of hesitate to say it like that because Speaker 1 It's all bad. But. Speaker 1 I started by Speaker 1 maybe just. Speaker 1 eating a little less, skipping some meals. Speaker 1 Throwing up on occasion. Speaker 2 Did anybody know that you were doing this or did it? Did it even register that you were? I'm not hungry today. Is that how it went? Speaker 1 At first Speaker 1 I remember lying to my family and telling them that I was eating dinner with friends. Speaker 1 And I wasn't. I remember specifically, one time I was out shopping with one of my friends, and I told her I was like, if my mom asks, tell her we went here Speaker 1 and Speaker 1 tell her we ate, but I'm really not going to. And it's funny because she actually commended me for the self-control. She said, wow, I don't know how you do that. Speaker 1 You have such self-control. Speaker 1 It was a friend that said that I was lying to my parents, telling them that I ate dinner with a friend when I really didn't eat anything at all. Speaker 2 That must have been exhausting trying to keep all that up. Speaker 1 Yes, definitely. Speaker 2 So just trying to understand the picture. So you were in high school? Right. And you were Speaker 2 you started to develop this and then you started, Speaker 2 you know, doing, using these habits to not eat right or creating these lies to not eat. Speaker 1 I want to eat a lot of times during the day. So I would obviously not eat breakfast, not eat lunch at school, and then I would eat dinner when I got home because I had to, Speaker 1 because I didn't want to not eat dinner every night with my family. And then I would go and throw up dinner usually. Speaker 2 Okay. And that's. That was just the beginning. Speaker 1 Yes. Speaker 1 And it made me feel really good to. Speaker 1 Every single time you throw up that food. Honestly it's, it felt like such a release. Speaker 2 So it was like a high. Speaker 1 Yes. Speaker 2 Interesting. I never knew that. Speaker 2 I wonder why that is. Because Speaker 2 other types of disorders Speaker 2 Fall into this control category. Speaker 2 But Speaker 2 one specifically that I can relate to is a feeling of high and control Speaker 1 after the fact. It Speaker 1 it's like relieving stress almost. Speaker 2 Right. Because you were stressed, because you ate. Speaker 1 Yeah. Speaker 2 So you were you could fix it. Something else you could control in that situation. Speaker 1 And then Speaker 1 obviously controlling your weight right. Yeah. That's something to a very Speaker 1 I mean multiple times throughout the day checking the scale. Speaker 1 Okay. Basing your whole life on that. Speaker 2 Yes. Speaker 1 I mean my whole mood if I woke up and I wasn't where I wanted to be weight wise that day, my entire day was ruined. Speaker 2 anybody, anybody ever on to you at that point? Speaker 1 Oh, definitely my mom. She didn't say anything. Well, actually, I had gone. Speaker 1 So the summer after my freshman year, Speaker 1 I had gone to visit my dad. We didn't live in the same area Speaker 1 or in the same state. Speaker 1 And he told me, Speaker 1 your mom thinks you're throwing up your food. Is this true? Speaker 1 Oh, of course I said no. Speaker 1 And Speaker 1 I mean, that was the end of that. Speaker 1 But Speaker 1 there was one day my mom had picked me up from school, and she told me we were going to I was going to get a physical or something from the doctor, and she had taken me to an intake appointment at an eating disorder treatment facility. Speaker 2 Oh, so you went to, inpatient treatment or. No. Speaker 1 So there's different levels of treatment. They usually have in IOP, which is like an intensive outpatient. So you stay home and you Speaker 1 go to her, you know, therapy every couple Speaker 1 times a week. Speaker 2 So you're in school at this time or now? You're like home schooling at this point or so. Speaker 1 At this point, this was just the intake. Speaker 1 So I think they were trying to see they were trying to see where I was. Speaker 2 Okay. Speaker 1 See what was going on. Speaker 2 So she was trying to get you help because she didn't understand. Speaker 1 Right. Yeah. So but there's different levels of treatment. So there's obviously like the hospital which would be a highest level. Then there's a level where you stay at the treatment facility 24 hours a day. You live there, then there's another level that's underneath that. You just go there for a couple of hours during the day, but you go back home and sleep. Speaker 1 And then there's one that you kind of just go to a couple times a week. Speaker 2 Okay. Speaker 1 So I think the point of this intake Speaker 1 appointment was obviously one to confront me because Speaker 1 nobody had said anything to me yet. And then Speaker 1 to kind of figure out where I was and what kind of treatment I needed. Speaker 2 Were you mad when this happened? So mad because she surprised you or you just were being yourself? Speaker 1 I was just being very defensive and denying for sure. Speaker 2 I remember you think you were going to be in trouble or something? Speaker 1 No, I don't think. I didn't think I was going to be in trouble. I just I just remember being extremely defensive and lying and and trying to convince them that this wasn't true, that this wasn't going on or happening. Speaker 2 Okay. Why did you do that? Did you were you afraid of losing control Speaker 1 I think it's always hard to admit that you have a problem. Speaker 2 Yeah. Speaker 1 I was blindsided. Speaker 1 The first step was to automatically take me to a treatment facility, and I had no idea what was going on. I was just shocked. And I was suddenly just confronted by these people that I didn't know, these people that were trying to put me away Speaker 1 in some facility. Speaker 1 And I was never Speaker 1 comforted. I guess Speaker 1 it wasn't gentle. Speaker 2 looking back now, if you had a child that was doing this. Speaker 2 how would you approach it differently or would you approach it differently because you know that's Speaker 2 their entire persona is a big lie. They're lying to themselves or lying to you and everyone around them. So common sense for most people would be to confront that head on, because that's what we're supposed to do in that situation. Speaker 2 So you're saying Speaker 2 that's not what you would do? Now? Speaker 1 First of all, that's that's a hard question because everybody's different. Speaker 1 you have to approach different people differently because of how their specific personalities are and how they react to certain things. Speaker 1 But when you have an eating disorder, that does become your identity, Speaker 1 that's all you care about. That's all you think about. Speaker 1 And unless you yourself come to the feeling of Speaker 1 wanting help, Speaker 1 it's going to be very hard to get the person struggling Speaker 1 To not become defensive and to not try and protect that identity. Speaker 2 But that's what a lot of things. Speaker 2 Right. Alcoholism, drug addiction, sex addiction and the list goes on. Speaker 1 I would probably try and Speaker 1 sit them down and Speaker 1 very kindly, very gently ask them Speaker 1 what's going on. Just mention that you're maybe noticing some things. Speaker 2 Had no one confront you with this before, and no one asked you about it. Speaker 1 One time my dad had said something. I had Speaker 1 visited him over the summer and he said, your mom called me and said that she thinks that you're throwing up your food. Speaker 1 He's not a very gentle person. I mean, I wasn't going to talk to him about anything. Like, I barely even knew him, honestly. Speaker 1 Yeah, of course I just said no, that's not true. And then moved on. And I never heard anything about it again until I was at that treatment facility. Speaker 2 I think as a parent, sometimes it's hard for us to Speaker 2 handle it because we don't want to believe that our child is hurting. Speaker 2 And Speaker 2 admit that they need help or that Speaker 2 We can't help them. Speaker 1 Yeah. Speaker 2 And I think a lot of times for parents that's, that's a really difficult thing. Speaker 1 And it's very hard to know how to handle a specific situation like that when you've never dealt with it yourself too. True Speaker 2 are there any other things that you did to hide it? Speaker 1 I don't honestly think it was that hard to hide it. I mean, obviously, like we just talked about, my mom knew something was up, Speaker 1 but other than that, I don't think anybody else knew. Speaker 2 And then what happened from there. Did you leave. Stay. What what happened. Speaker 1 So if I remember correctly, they wanted me. They originally were thinking I was going to be in the lowest level of care. And then after all, my pushback and defensiveness and kind of how I was acting, they decided that I probably needed something a little higher. Speaker 1 So the doctor, they did an assessment. They checked all Speaker 1 my levels and made sure I wasn't Speaker 1 dying that day. Speaker 1 from malnourishment and all of that stuff. Speaker 1 and I didn't go in the lowest level of care. Speaker 1 But I went into the next one, which was an eight hour a day thing. So my mom would drop me off in the morning. I would stay in treatment all day, and then I would come home at night, time to sleep. Speaker 2 How was the treatment? Did that help you? Hurt you? Speaker 1 I was in treatment several times and that first time definitely made it worse, actually. Speaker 2 How did it make it worse than before? Speaker 1 To be completely honest, I learned a lot from, the other patients. Speaker 1 I Speaker 1 at that point, I didn't really think I had a problem. I didn't want help. I wasn't interested in. Speaker 2 So it was like school for people with eating disorders. Speaker 1 Yeah. Speaker 1 Which sucks to say, because treatment facilities are great. And and that's, that's where people do need to go a lot of times. Speaker 2 Yeah. Speaker 1 But there is also the risk Speaker 1 you're somewhere with a lot of mentally unstable people. Speaker 1 And a lot of people that don't want help. So what are they going to do? They're going to talk to you about things that you don't really for a lot of things I didn't know about. Speaker 1 That I was learning. Speaker 2 I, I think that's good to know that it's not a just dropped your kid off and they're going to be fixed. Speaker 1 There's always work to. Speaker 2 Do, and they have to want to do the work as well. Speaker 1 Yeah, I Speaker 1 learned tips and tricks on how to not eat. Speaker 1 I actually started self-harming right after or during that stay because I saw other patients do it more control. Speaker 1 So that Speaker 1 few months in treatment didn't help me at all honestly. Speaker 2 Do you think if you wanted to get well it would have helped if you were actively participating? Speaker 1 Probably so. Speaker 1 it was definitely a good program. Speaker 2 do you feel addicted to it? Speaker 1 Oh, yeah. It's definitely an addiction. Speaker 1 And. Speaker 1 It's almost like Speaker 1 you want to be better at your eating disorder Speaker 1 than someone else. Yeah. Which I don't think. I don't know, because I have not struggled with any other addictions, but. Speaker 1 I don't think it's common in, Speaker 1 those spaces. Speaker 1 if you're a drug addict, do you want to be a better drug addict than this person? Speaker 2 Yes, sometimes you do. Speaker 1 Oh, okay. Speaker 2 This is I watch more porn than you. I drink more than you. I do more drugs than you. Speaker 1 Yeah, it's. Yeah. I mean. Speaker 2 I'm more broken than you is actually a lot of what it. Speaker 1 Really is. Yeah, Speaker 1 that's exactly how this was. And for me, this was a learning on Speaker 1 how to be better at my eating disorder this round. Speaker 1 So when I got out of treatment this time, Speaker 1 I completely stopped eating. Speaker 1 didn't eat really anything at all for two weeks. Speaker 1 And that got me sent straight to the hospital. Like the real hospital this time. Speaker 2 Did someone notice Speaker 2 Did you ask for help? Speaker 1 No, I never asked for help. Speaker 1 I was just losing weight. I'm sure that Speaker 1 my parents tried to make me eat, Speaker 1 and I was just refusing, and I was Speaker 1 horrible to my family at this time. Horrible. I remember one time Speaker 1 my mom had set yogurt on the table for me to eat. I mean, I was on a specific meal plan. My parents measured out my meals, Speaker 1 you know, fed them to me every day, or tried to at least. Speaker 1 And I was throwing like I was throwing a tantrum. I didn't want to eat. My mom was yelling at me, trying to get me to eat all of the stuff. We were arguing back and forth, so I just took the bowl of yogurt, and I Speaker 1 turned it upside down right in front of my mom. And Speaker 1 watched it drain on to the floor, Speaker 2 now you were out of control. You were. You were acting out because the one thing you thought you could control, you no longer were in control. Speaker 1 Yeah, well, and people were trying to get me to eat, and I was just lashing out at them and. Speaker 1 Like you said, I kind of was just withering away. I mean, I got my weight got so low, and I was so malnourished, Speaker 1 I had to go to the hospital Speaker 1 so I didn't have to die, Speaker 1 And then I do remember Speaker 1 chewing gum as I was walking in and the nurses told me I couldn't have gum. And so I spit it out at the nurse. Speaker 1 I was so mean. Speaker 1 Then after I was in the hospital for a while, I went back to the treatment facility. Speaker 2 Inpatient? Speaker 1 Yes. And this time I actually lived there. So I went from the actual hospital to inpatient treatment, and I was there 24 hours. Speaker 1 Then this was the point where I just, I wouldn't eat. I got a feeding tube Speaker 1 because that's how things worked. If you wouldn't eat your solid food, they would Speaker 1 push insure down your feeding tube. Speaker 1 And I was still just so angry and lashing out and throwing tantrums every single time they would made me eat. Speaker 1 There were times I remember Speaker 1 if I got super mad, I would rip out my feeding tube Speaker 1 and I would just throw it on the floor Speaker 2 Why do you think you did all these things? Speaker 1 I was just trying to hold on to it. Speaker 1 Hold on to the eating disorder. Hold on to that identity. Hold on to that control, I guess. Speaker 2 So you're. You started feeling out of control. Speaker 1 Well, when somebody is forcing you to to give up something that you don't want to give up. Speaker 2 So the eating disorder became a coping mechanism for you? Speaker 1 Yeah, absolutely. Speaker 1 I think mostly the Speaker 1 the instability in my life. I think. Speaker 1 At the root of it all, that's that's one of the, the biggest issues that I have is instability and and feeling unwanted Speaker 2 It sounds like that second trip to the treatment facility didn't help you here? Speaker 1 No. Not really. Speaker 1 I think that. Speaker 1 I probably got worse after that one also. Speaker 2 Can you walk me through something real quick so I understand? Speaker 2 What are the treatment facilities at least back then. And what were they trying to do. Speaker 2 what was their goal there. Speaker 1 Some of it is roof heating because when you're so malnourished and you don't eat, there's a particular way that you have to refi, right? Speaker 2 But what are they trying to heal other than okay, I get your nutrition and your nourishment is number one most important thing. Save the person physically. But it's not a physical ailment as much. It is a spiritual, emotional mental ailment. Speaker 1 Yeah. I mean you're constantly in therapy. That's the whole entire day. So there is a schedule. Speaker 1 You're just in therapy all day. Basically. Speaker 2 So they're just trying to wear you down to get you to Speaker 2 figure out what the issue might be. Speaker 1 Yeah. And they teach you coping skills and they help you too. Speaker 2 What were some of the coping skills they taught you? Speaker 2 Do you remember any or did you? Speaker 1 Journaling would be one would be good to teach you about your feelings. I mean, a lot of people go in there. They're just so broken. They feel numb, Speaker 1 which is. Speaker 2 Definitely that's a that's a big deal with Speaker 2 a lot of these type of disorders there's a loneliness because no one understands. Speaker 1 Me. And you get to a point because and I know this because I got to that point you don't even recognize what you're feeling. So I remember in one group I have this actually was in a different treatment facility. But we would sit around in a circle with the other girls there and they would pass around a paper Speaker 1 With like, different smiley faces of different emotions so that you could read on this paper the emotions and you would say how you are feeling that day. And Speaker 1 that literally might be somebody's only way of knowing how they feel, because you're so numb that you can't even recognize how you're feeling. So how are you even supposed to talk about Speaker 1 it? Speaker 1 But the person that's struggling does have to be willing to do Speaker 1 the work. Speaker 1 And I definitely wasn't willing to do the work at that time. I Speaker 1 eventually, a few months later, got out of that treatment facility, Speaker 1 went back to school, Speaker 1 my eating disorder actually got worse. Speaker 2 So it just kept progressively getting worse, even though you were going to treatment, but you weren't really working hard in there. You said. Speaker 1 No, definitely not. I mean, I was there because I had to be, wasn't there on my own. Speaker 1 that just landed me back in treatment again, a different facility. I went actually to facility in a different state Speaker 1 for a while. I remember getting there and they asked me what I had eaten that day, and I said nothing. And so they handed me some grapes, tried to get me to eat something, and I threw it at the nurse. Speaker 1 That one, I do think, helped me a little bit more. Speaker 2 Do you think if you had been brought up in faith stronger, that this would have been easier or maybe never have happened Speaker 2 100%? Speaker 1 Like I said earlier, I did go to church. Speaker 1 Not because I wanted to go to church, Speaker 1 But because my parents were going to church and I went with them. But when I was growing up, I never really understood the importance of God in faith in my life, and I never understood the importance of a relationship with them and how to have a relationship with him. Speaker 2 I think that's important, how to have a relationship with them. I don't think that's stressed enough. Speaker 1 No it's not, I think, and you have to you have to learn that. I mean, you either have to wait until you're older, like. Speaker 2 Or they can teach yourself. Speaker 1 Yeah, but if you're a child Speaker 1 and you don't have people that are telling you how to do that and what to do, Speaker 1 you're not going to be able to figure that out on your own or know that that's you have to pray and do all of that stuff. Speaker 2 It's not just a child thing. There's adults that don't know how to do it, Speaker 2 really all you should be doing is just seeking him. Seeking Jesus. Speaker 1 Right. Speaker 2 And if you do that, you're going to start having a better relationship. You're going to have stronger faith, and you're going to be able to find strength in him. Speaker 2 Which is really all you need is his grace. Speaker 1 Yeah. Speaker 2 And that's Speaker 2 in second Corinthians 12 nine. Paul talks about this. He says, My Jesus says, my grace is all you need. My power works best in weakness. Speaker 2 When you seek God, he's really capable of helping you through things. Speaker 1 Yeah. And I think Speaker 1 That wasn't stressed enough during my childhood. Speaker 1 Because when you're in this eating disorder, in this depression, Speaker 1 you feel completely isolated. Speaker 2 I've heard eating disorders isolate you. Speaker 1 Yeah, it's incredibly isolating. Speaker 1 That's literally all I cared about. I didn't care about anybody else except for that. That was my only focus. So friends, family Speaker 1 didn't matter. Speaker 1 I woke up Speaker 1 immediately thinking about how I looked, immediately thinking about my weight, Speaker 1 and thought about that all day. Speaker 1 How I could not eat, how I could lie so that people didn't know I wasn't eating or throwing up. Speaker 1 And Speaker 1 you feel so alone. But it's the eating disorder that's making you Speaker 1 feel alone. You just have all of these thoughts going on in your head telling you you're not good enough. Speaker 2 What made you feel like you weren't good enough? Speaker 1 I think I've always struggled with that. Speaker 1 A lot of it probably stems from Speaker 1 me growing up. My parents were very, very young. When they had me, they weren't together. Speaker 1 my dad wasn't really in my life and that definitely made me feel unwanted by him. Speaker 1 And me. And my mom moved away from where I was born, and the rest of my family and Speaker 1 she was a single mom. Speaker 1 She was working all the time, Speaker 1 and a lot of times I was alone. Speaker 1 I stayed home alone from a very young age. Speaker 1 And I was an only child, Speaker 1 so I was I was very lonely and I didn't really have anybody around Speaker 1 that made me feel comforted all the time. Speaker 1 There was a lot of trying to figure things out myself. Speaker 1 And. Speaker 1 Looking back Speaker 1 on my teen years and, you know, even my early 20s, I have just been trying to figure out how to be loved. Speaker 1 By other people. Speaker 1 I think not having, Speaker 1 that that family close around Speaker 1 made me kind of struggle with that. Speaker 2 That sounds absolutely crushing. And Speaker 2 what you were dealing with as a child is a broken heart. Speaker 2 And that's really hard to hear sometimes because I think about my own children and knowing that Speaker 2 they likely suffered or suffer from a broken heart as well. Speaker 2 But the Bible promises in Psalm 3418, the Lord is close to the broken hearted. He rescues those whose spirits are crushed. Speaker 2 Do you see that God had a plan the whole time now, even though you didn't then Speaker 2 definitely. Speaker 2 This is something we've talked about a lot, given our various stories that we've shared, Speaker 2 that we had to go through them to get to where we are and to get to where we're going. Speaker 1 Yeah, I think that, Speaker 1 through all of this not feeling like I have that love and that protection and that guidance that I did as a child, Speaker 1 the only way, the only place that I could find it, the only place that I can find it. And now is God. Speaker 1 that's what he wants, right? That's what he wants for everybody is he wants Speaker 1 he wants his children to come to him. He really is the best. He's the best father. He's the one that can love you the most and that can protect you the most. And they can keep you safe. Speaker 2 I have a question about treatment. Speaker 1 Yeah. Speaker 2 I know that at the time, there wasn't a way for you to have both. Speaker 2 you weren't able you weren't able to go to treatment and seek God also. Speaker 1 But I didn't know how to do that. Speaker 2 Right. But what I'm asking is, if you knew how to do that, if you were. Speaker 2 Somehow Speaker 2 combined the two treatment with like a Christian treatment center with real Christian values. Speaker 1 Yes. Speaker 2 Not just a Christian counselor who has a certificate and they went to school over a weekend. Speaker 1 Yeah. Speaker 2 But I mean, a real theologically based treatment center that was able to actually get through to people and help them. Speaker 1 Yeah, I think that would be the best thing because. Speaker 1 There are a lot of treatment facilities that aren't Christian based, and they are telling you you need to do what makes you happy. Speaker 1 You know that I, I. Speaker 1 And that's just going to make things worse, Speaker 1 Because they say you shouldn't bring religion into it, just like at work, for example. You know? Speaker 1 But. Speaker 1 The answer is God. You know, I've had such a hard time with this the last couple of days. Speaker 1 And for the last five, six, ten years, maybe even if you would have asked me about my eating disorder, I would have told you the story. Speaker 1 No problem. Speaker 1 I would have told you I was over it. I still struggle with it from time to time, but emotionally and mentally I would have said I'm pretty. Pretty much past it. Speaker 1 But the last few days God has shown me that I'm not past it. Speaker 1 And he's shown me that there's things that I still need to work on, Speaker 1 which is really hard. Speaker 1 But I'm also excited about it, and thankful because now I can work through it with God Speaker 1 instead of trying to figure it out myself, or just suppressing it and lying to myself and saying that I'm over it when I'm not. Speaker 2 Yeah, it's not just you doing that. It's the enemy. Speaker 2 he sets these little traps in these triggers for you. Speaker 2 So that he can keep you bound up in those chains. Speaker 1 Yeah. Speaker 1 And God is the only one that can actually tell you the truth. Speaker 2 So I have a question that we talked about earlier. Speaker 2 And I think that this is probably the most important question that I'm going to ask today. Speaker 2 Friends and family often say the wrong things with good intentions. What are the most unhelpful and even harmful come. Is that you heard. Speaker 1 Oh my gosh. Speaker 1 The worst thing that you can say to somebody with an eating disorder is you look so healthy. Oh my gosh, you look so good. You look so healthy. Yeah, that's literally don't ever say that to anybody with an eating disorder. That's like it. It means they're fat. That's not what you mean. But in their head, when they hear that, that's what they think you're saying. Speaker 2 What should you say instead? Speaker 1 In somebody that's recovering, like, for example, if somebody comes home from treatment and you haven't seen him for a while, you shouldn't say anything about their bodies or how they look at all or really food. Just talk to them like they're normal. How are you? What's going on? Yeah. What do you want to do today? You shouldn't you shouldn't really bring up any of that. Speaker 1 If you're having more of a serious discussion, maybe with your family about like meals or something like that, I would just ask more open questions, Speaker 1 and just kind of let them do the talking and let them get comfortable. Speaker 2 Is there anything you would ask someone if you suspected them of doing it? Speaker 1 I would very kindly and gently sit down and Speaker 1 just ask if everything's okay. Speaker 1 Is there something going on that you might need help with? Is there anything that's bothering you? Speaker 1 And I would, in a gentle way, try to get them to open up and to talk about it, Speaker 1 but don't force them and don't accuse them Speaker 1 of doing something specific, like not eating or throwing up or something. Speaker 2 What about if you know that this is going on? Speaker 2 if you're a parent and you know that your child is doing this. Speaker 2 And you also know that the child is going to lie about it in most cases. Yeah. Speaker 2 You can't passively approach this. How would you deal with this. Speaker 2 How would you approach this with someone? Speaker 1 Well, you have to be gentle. You can't. Speaker 2 But what about when they lie? Speaker 1 You just. You have to tell them that, you know. Well, I know you've been throwing up your food. I know you've been skipping meals Speaker 1 very gently. Not. Speaker 1 Why are you doing this? Why are you doing that? Like, very gently, with compassion. Speaker 1 I know this is going on. You're not in trouble. But Speaker 1 What's going on? Speaker 1 let's talk about this. Speaker 2 What if the child is just adamant about denying, Speaker 1 you are just going to have to step in as the parent and force it at some point. Speaker 2 When would you bring Jesus into the conversation Speaker 1 Jesus needs to be brought into it immediately, and he really needs to be brought in to everything. Speaker 1 I. Speaker 2 So if you're not that person that is actively practicing this, would you recommend they seek counsel from maybe a pastor at the church they do occasionally go to or even Speaker 2 the local church that they have? Speaker 1 Yeah, I think that would be extremely helpful. They can kind of guide you through Speaker 1 how God can help, Speaker 1 guide you through some scriptures and some, some things in the Bible. But if you start praying to God and you start talking to him, Speaker 1 he will talk back Speaker 1 he will help you get through it. Speaker 1 And he'll pull out that pain like nobody else can. Speaker 2 And it's okay to do that because as the parent, we don't always have all the answers. And the sooner we admit that we don't have all the answers and all the solutions and that the solutions are in one place and one place only, and that's the Bible. The sooner that we can get ahead of this and actually get a handle on it. Speaker 2 So by going to seek counsel from a pastor or church leader or even a friend that you know, is is really in the word, they can help guide you as a parent to help take care of your child. Speaker 1 Yeah. And there's you're going to have to do both because Speaker 1 this is a very big disease and Speaker 1 there's a lot that goes into recovery. And you're going to need the doctor to make sure that you're not malnourished. Make sure all your levels are good. You're probably going to need a dietitian to help you with some kind of eating plan. Speaker 1 Re feeding plan, or Speaker 1 how to deal with the food portion. That's not something a pastor's probably going to be able to tell you Speaker 1 the specific food portion of that. Speaker 2 Sometimes we get in our own way, just always praying all the time when he's given us the solution. It's over here at this treatment facility, Speaker 2 You still have to be willing to work it. Speaker 2 So when you have a family or friend or a loved one that is struggling, you don't just have to take them to the church. You can go to the church and get some guidance on how to approach it with them. Speaker 1 Well, and especially something like this, a lot of diseases, a lot of addictions. It's not just about that one person that's struggling. It's all it involves. Speaker 1 The people that surround them as well. Speaker 2 For. Speaker 1 Sure. And they need help as well. Spiritually, mentally, emotionally. You're going to find your answers through God. And if you don't know how to do that, then find somebody that can help you. Speaker 2 I think something that Speaker 2 I don't know if I said this on the last episode, but I think it a lot. I say it to you sometimes Speaker 2 whenever we go through something, Speaker 2 no matter how big or small it is, if we're dealing with something that's painful, every single person around us is dealing with it in some way, shape or form. Speaker 1 Right. Speaker 2 With it. Your mother not knowing what to do and doing the best that she could to deal with it. You're not thinking anyone understood it and trying to control your situation. Yeah, cousins, grandparents, everyone around us suffers. Speaker 1 You know, my mom told me one time Speaker 1 she would go to sleep every night, not knowing if her daughter was going to wake up the next morning. Speaker 2 Yeah. And that's Speaker 2 horrible. And I think a lot of parents deal with, Speaker 2 that. Speaker 2 With their kids. I know my parents certainly probably taught that a few times. Speaker 1 Yeah. Speaker 2 But I think Speaker 2 we're so caught up in what's going on with us trying to deal with our own selves that we forget about those people around us and we get labeled as selfish. Speaker 1 Yeah. Speaker 2 When Speaker 2 We're going through something and we can't express it, and we don't understand it. And no one around us knows how to help us either. Speaker 1 Right? Speaker 2 And we would all get along much better by seeking the answers of Jesus that he has for us in all of these situations. Speaker 1 And together, every. Speaker 2 Single situation. Yeah, yeah, that's super important together. Speaker 1 Yup. Speaker 2 So recovery is never a straight line. Speaker 2 Have you had any setbacks. How do you how do you get through this today. How do you what's your relationship like with food your body everything. Speaker 2 And when you have setbacks how do you deal with them. No. Speaker 1 It's definitely up and down. Speaker 1 I still struggle to this day, obviously not nearly as bad as I did. Speaker 1 My relationship with food is Speaker 1 pretty good. Speaker 1 There are some things that I definitely have struggles with. I'm very particular about my food. Speaker 1 Extremely particular. Speaker 1 I have to feel like sometimes I have to eat things in a certain way. And there's certain, Speaker 1 time limits. Speaker 2 Still controlling. Speaker 1 Yeah. Yeah, definitely. Speaker 2 But at least it's not harmful. Speaker 1 It's not harmful. But there are definitely moments of control. If I don't get exactly what I want. Speaker 1 The other day Speaker 1 had gone to this restaurant and I was trying to get this one thing on the menu that we that I always get every single time we go there. I was super excited to get it. Speaker 1 And we get there and they said, we've taken it off the menu. Speaker 1 And my heart literally sank like I was so lost in that moment. Speaker 1 I was so overwhelmed and discombobulated in my mind because I just wasn't expecting that. Speaker 1 And I didn't know what to do. And so we left. Speaker 2 Yeah, that's not the first time that's happened, but. Speaker 2 You like what you like and you want what you want, and that's okay. Speaker 1 Yeah. If I have set in my mind that I want something, Speaker 1 I better get that or we. Speaker 2 Had a better meal anyways, or we ended up going, see, God always has a. Speaker 1 Plan. Speaker 2 Do you feel your relationship with God now strengthens your ability to deal with challenges and triggers? Speaker 1 100%. Yes. Speaker 1 Like I said earlier, I'm thankful that God has shown me that Speaker 1 I need to take some time to deal with this a little bit more, because now I get to deal with it with him, and I get to give him my pain and him my struggles. Speaker 1 And God can do anything. Speaker 1 he'll handle it perfectly in the way that it's supposed to be handled. Speaker 2 I love that that's a powerful picture of what true freedom really looks like. Speaker 2 It brings me to Galatians five one. So Christ has truly set us free. Now make sure that you stay free and don't get tied up again in slavery to the law. Yeah, thank you for sharing your powerful story and finding that freedom to help others find their own. Speaker 1 Of course, I hope that this was able to help someone. If anyone. Speaker 1 If you or anyone you know is struggling with an eating disorder. Speaker 1 Reach out to the National Eating Disorders Association helpline at 1-800-931-2237. Have a great Speaker 1 have a great day everyone. Thank you for joining us and God bless.

Ten years ago. My life as I knew it was erased. In an instant, a brain injury took my career, my family and my identity. For a long time, I had one burning question. God, why would you let this happen? Welcome back to FORLOVENESS. I'm Taylor. I'm Ryan. How are you? I'm okay. How are you? I'm good. Last week, we talked about what happens when you're betrayed by the people around you. Today, we're going to talk about what happens when it feels like God betrays you. What happens when your life collapses and God feels silent? So a couple of episodes ago, you talked a little bit about your brain injury. Can you kind of elaborate on that? Sure. About ten years ago, I was work at the fire department. Hit my head. I didn't think much about it, actually. Finish out my shift. Started having a little bit of a headache, but went home. No big deal or nothing if anyone else hasn't dealt with. Before I went in for my next shift, though, it felt a little worse, and so I thought I should go to the doctor just to make sure everything was good. And I went in on my way to work, and he told me that I needed to take a shift or two off. And between that day and the next shift, everything changed. I started having a lot more trouble. I had trouble with my speech, my hearing just things were not right. I knew they weren't right, and I went back and he took me off for two weeks after that. Yeah. Then, you know, long story short, I ended up at a neurologist and I haven't been back since to work. So walk us through the moment where everything changed. Okay. Before that second shift came around. Things had gotten dramatically worse. It was trouble speaking. Trouble thinking. Over the next several months. I mean, everything changed physically. I was in a lot of pain. That lasted for years. Every single day. Living with a headache mentally that was trying on me. I still struggle with that sometimes. And spiritually, I was doing the opposite of what I should have been doing. I was actually drifting further and further away from God. What was your relationship like with God at that point? I grew up Catholic. He grew up in the church. I definitely stepped away from my faith in my teenage years. I still talk to God, I pray, but not obviously not like I do now. Not like I did when I was a young child. But I like everybody. I thought that I was in charge of what my life was going to be. The plan was my plan and all the things that I wanted to do or things exactly that I thought you wanted to do. Yes. And I had to handle all of that and drive that and walk whatever path that I thought I needed to be walking to accomplish whatever goals I happen to have the day, that day or at the time. Yeah, I think that's something that a lot of us get caught up in is we want to do what we want to do so that we are happy and we think that we can make ourselves happy. Yes, but what we miss is that if we do what God wants us to do and we listen to him and obey him, we're going to be much happier, actually, because the things that he has for us is way better than anything that we could ever do for ourselves. I want to play a little bit of something that we recorded yesterday when we tried to record this, when I wasn't having a good day is I have good days and bad days. Still, ten years later and. I just wanted to play a little bit of this conversation. We had, just so people can see that it's not always, you know, oh, just give it to God. Everything's better. Some days are still struggles, and I don't have to get through that. And the only difference now is that I go, I step back into God as opposed to stepping away. So I just want to play this really quick. But what has the pain taught you? Nothing. I don't know what comes from it. The you know, you have to go through hard things. Why? Why do I have to go through hard things? She can't answer. No. You. Of course. Of course I can't. God puts you through hard things to refine you, to build your character. This is all stuff that we've talked about before. To build your faith. Yes, but why do I have to go through? Why do any of us have to go through so much? Why do you have to go through what you talked about last week, and all the things that you're going to talk about? Why does you know my dad? He's just. All he does is for other people. Why does he have to get so sick that he's got to have treatments for serious things? Why do I have to lose my identity in myself? Why does everyone around me have to suffer? If. If you want to make me suffer, there's one thing. But why does everyone around me have to suffer? So yeah, that's how sometimes they scale. Not always in a joyful, moving all the time. Sometimes I even struggle with being annoyed. Hurt? Yeah, that went on for quite a while yesterday, actually. You felt angry at God? Wasn't that. I was angry at God. I was just frustrated. Because I couldn't come up with the words. I mean, I have trouble speaking sometimes. Still I have trouble getting my thoughts across. I don't stutter like I did before, but it frustrates me a lot and it's more on me like I'm putting a lot of pressure on me, which is interesting. Because lately as we've been doing this, I've had a lot of like, I stroke, you see me, I get a lot. I feel there's a lot of pressure to get it done. And some days I feel like I'm getting in trouble. God. Because maybe I'm taking a break that I'm not supposed to take. And yesterday was one of those days I felt a lot of pressure. There's still thing God has a has a plan for us and we have some. But we still have to do things occasionally like edit videos or edit audio or record or record, which usually takes us. It we don't just come in and record once. It takes us a few times because, we just not get it. I guess, but I open my Bible, this morning, and the first thing that shows up is Psalm 119 143. As pressure and stress bear down on me, I find joy in your commands. Right? Right. Was there a time where you were angry with God? Yeah. There was a good chunk of time after the accident that I got very angry. I went very far away. I did the opposite. Of what? Again? What you should do. I was struggling because I felt I couldn't fix it. Which is true. I couldn't fix it. Only God can fix it if he wants to fix it. And I was really angry because I was trying to get back to myself, trying to get back to work, trying to get back to family, trying to get back to everything. And I couldn't do it. And I was getting really frustrated and frustrated because I was an employer. I was frustrated because I wasn't able to think, I wasn't able to remember things. I was frustrated because everyone around me had to suffer. My my family had to suffer. My friends had to suffer. And I was putting it off on everyone. I was you, overly aggressive, overly angry, and it's hurtful. I have, four kids that were all at the time. Yeah. When this happened, eight years old, that were the youngest. And when dad is not big, strong dad anymore in his. No idea what's going on. They're just constantly angry and mad and doesn't even know why. That's a lot for them to have to handle and have to deal with. I eventually ended up moving out, which is good and bad. Yeah, I think it's good because they didn't have to listen to me anymore, deal with me anymore, but bad because, well, now I'm gone. Was it was it like a protection thing? Yes. It was for probably for for all of them. As much as it was for me. I was in so much pain. It caused me to be angry all the time. And when you've got, you know, small children running around, there's this noises and things, all that stuff going on, which is drive me even crazier. And I just couldn't handle it. And so I left. I got in a big argument with my ex. I don't even totally remember what it was about. I'm sure that she could remind me, but I had a big argument with her, and I ended up leaving and never went back. I didn't, okay, I went back, but I never moved back in. I think it's hard for me even to sit here right now and think that any good could have come from that. It came from the good that could have come from it is nobody had to deal with me anymore. The bad is that I wasn't there to help them deal with things either. But to be honest, I probably couldn't have helped anybody do anything. I couldn't even help myself do anything. So when did the full weight of all that loss hit you? You know, your job, your family? What did that feel like? I don't remember. I remember being angry and being very, very mad at God. I remember. Just. Hurting all the time. Because. I felt like I failed everyone, around me. I felt I filled myself and filled my kids. My my parents, my ex. I mean, everybody, because I wasn't holding up my end of the bargain. I guess. But I do think that's were part of the problem. So I noticed during this entire conversation, it's a lot about me and Matt talking about any failures I have with God. I which I had plenty I wasn't living the way I was supposed to be living. I was doing things I shouldn't be doing. I was not praying when I needed to pray. You know, everything was good at one point. So what do we do? We we beat our chests and we tell everybody how great we are. And everybody agrees. And we go on, tell something. Takes it away. It or God takes it away from us. Did you? Yeah. Let God. Oh, certainly. I. Yelled, cursed even to the point of if you're not going to do this to help me, then I don't want to talk to you. Just like a child. Well, did you ever feel like your injury was a punishment? It did. I did, I didn't know why I was being punished. Well, there's plenty of reasons. We can all be punished all the time, but I will tell you this. He doesn't punish us that way. He. He comes to save us, not to pour out his anger on us. No matter what we do. Why do you think God lets these things happen? Well, the common answer is he's got a plan, right? Which he does. But that's the cliche that. Oh, you know, it's all God's plan if he's going to work out. Yeah. Nobody really wants to hear that. I certainly was not trying to hear that. There's there's still days that I'm not trying to hear that. And this is all we do. We study literally this type of topic. You know, I still struggle with it. I was thinking this morning about this question and how to really answer it. And so I thought of a little story, because there's lots of stories in the Bible. They don't make sense to everybody, but I thought of this story about a like a kid getting a splinter. Yeah. And so imagine you've got a young kid and he's out playing in his dad's woodshed, and his dad's at the doorway watching him, and he's in there laughing and having a great time. And he reaches over for something and he yells, oh my gosh, ouch, ouch, ouch. He runs to his dad, crying as he hurt his hand. My hand hurts. Make it stop. Make it stop. And so the father kneels down and he's hurt. You know I want to see your kids hurting. It's always a problem. And he looks and he sees this kid. His son's got a splinter and he says, okay, look, I see it, and I can take it out and make it better, but then he pulls out tweezers and antiseptic wipes and everything, and the kid was like, nope, I'm not. He's not doing that. He's screaming, just pull his hands away. That's going to hurt more. Just leave it. Well, the father knows the truth. You know, if he leaves that splutter in there, it's going to it's going to fester. It's going to get infected. A fever, way more pain. And danger can come from leaving it in taking it out. So this momentary pain of removing this, this splinter is nothing compared to the agony that's going to happen if we leave it in there. Right. So the dad doesn't want to do it because he knows he's going to hurt his kid, but then he's got to hold him down. He's got to hold him down firmly. The kid's screaming, is kicking. He's screaming, I hate you, I hate you, you're hurting me. And the dad has to ignore all of that. Just. He's doing it out of love. Even though he knows right now he's hurting the kid. So he. He gathers his kid, he's holding him tightly, and he just. With perfect precision. Probably not. If you've ever tried a full splinter out of a kid, but he pulls it out and he cleans it and all that stuff is now the worst of it's over. And now he can actually start to heal. Wow. By it. So the child is like us. We're focused on our immediate comfort and our fear, and the splinter is sort of the sin, the destructive habits, the things that we do, the complacency. Because like I was talking about before, when things are going good, everything is going good. We don't talk to God. Yeah. So it's like spiritual complacency. The infection is a spiritual death. And then the separation from God that the same causes, sort of like I was talking about when this happened, I was like, nope, no way. I don't want to talk. And then the dad obviously has God. He sees the things that we can't see and he knows the greater dangers. So that purposeful procedure in this case, or the thing that we have to go through our hardships. Crisises, God allows or uses. Yeah, right. It feels like a punishment to us at times, but in actuality, it's a necessity to rescue us from something far worse that we'll never know. Yeah, and that's really powerful. I kind of feel like I want to cry a little bit. So what does your relationship with God look like now compared to before? Well, obviously it's much different. I've I've seen the light, so to speak. I've seen. What he can do. And I'll tell you this actually goes back. I've always talked to God. I've always had a relationship with God, a very father son relationship, not a Lord servant relationship. I'm. And. He does amazing things all the time. Yeah, because of me leaving, my house, my kids and everything that has. Fostered a different type of relationship than when a father's in the home. And. Those same kids are adults. They're 18 now, and I have an older daughter as well. When? I'm always trying to get together with them, trying to do stuff with them. But, you know, they work, they're in school, they're in sports. It's really hard to to gather them up. One of them. Invited us to church. Yeah. And so I jumped all over that, and we went and we continued to go. Right. And. We continued to pray and get into the word more and we started seeing things. You said one day you don't think God wants you at your job. And I told you that we probably did. You should pray on that. And you did. And they let you go for no reason that day. Yeah. And there's stories nearly daily of this type of thing that goes on. So we've been able to see. Things that we were blind to before. Coincidences. Yeah. Everybody they're not coincidences. Golden. And so I would say that right now I am. Very, very deep in it. There's this term that gets thrown around that I really hate, but it's called that baby Christian. Yeah. And here's the difference. Like a child who doesn't know anything about the world, they're pure. Yeah. This is the same goes for this. When you have someone that's that's not been a Christian their entire life. And they're just excited. Excited and they're all in on it. They are so pure and they see things in a they are able to accept God in a way that that a lot of people can't. Eventually people have to go back to their life and they tend to struggle with giving it to God, letting God handle things. And he's been working on both of us a lot in our our wounds and our scars that are inside of us. And I want to touch on it something really quick because. You felt a lot of guilt and shame over the years. Because you weren't with your kids those years. And that's something that you you've been working on. How's that been? Difficult at times. I have a good relationship with them. We're not together all the time, which is what I want to be. I want them to be with me all the time. Right. And I can't force a relationship. I wish I could. But I do the best that I can to try to get closer to them. You know their responses sometimes they're not. They're they're all great kids. All four of my great kids, I talk to them pretty much every day. If they respond sometimes I had to call them to get an actual answer, but that's fine. I don't mind it. I mostly text because I don't want to bother them. Yeah, when it shouldn't really matter. But I want to try to guide them. Yeah, where I can. But I'm also not afraid to be guided me. One of them invited us to church and because of him, all of this started, right? Yeah. I mean, that truly was kind of our first moment in this whole process. So if you could go back now and tell yourself something to help you deal with everything, what would you say? How amazing would that be? Yeah. I would just tell myself that it's going to be okay. God has a plan and don't get mad at him. Go to him and trust in him. That hurts me. Sometimes I think about that because I wonder what happens. Had I done that from the beginning, what would life be like? It wouldn't be like this. But I think regardless of whatever path we choose, he's going to make sure that we're on the right path eventually. Just how are we going to get there? And now you can help other people that maybe are dealing with the same kind of struggles. Second Corinthians one three through four says, God comforts us in all of our troubles so that we can comfort others. So now you can use this to do that. Yeah, I try to where I can, I I'm still being refined by this. Like in the clip we played earlier. You can you can hear that I still have struggles, but the difference is now I'm I'm learning. I'm allowing God to teach me as opposed to trying to teach myself and trying to push through things. I let him handle it in, in hope that I make the right choice. But I don't make any choice without talking to him and praying to him, because that happens to all of us at some point. It's just like David in Psalm 22. He had that same feeling of being forsaken and overwhelmed by immense suffering. And he was crying out, My God, my God, why have you abandoned me? Every day I call to you God, but you don't answer. And we feel like that sometimes. But. It also says in Psalm 3418, the Lord is close to the brokenhearted. He rescues those whose spirits are crushed, so he doesn't just leave you when you're broken, he sees you and he draws even closer to you. Yes, and at the end of the day. We all know that God's plans are better than ours. It says in Jeremiah 2911 through 13, for I know the plans I have for you, says the Lord. They are plans for good and not for disaster, to give you a future and a hope. We have a good, good father who is always looking out for us and who has these amazing plans. And sometimes we have to go through hard things to get there. But the plans are always good. Yeah, I like I said earlier, I think it's all about our salvation. Ultimately, he wants to save us, and if we're not going to do it on our own, he's got to help us get there. If we're to focus on our self and our own ambitions and our own worldly possessions. Yeah. Everybody wants a Lamborghini. Everybody wants to be a billionaire. Everybody wants to have all these things. But nobody's talking about they want to have a relationship with God. Yeah, it's just the the world that we live in. So things have to happen sometimes in order to help us get there. He wants us all saved. If we were all saved, there would probably be no need for any bad things to happen. He wants all of us. Yeah, and I think that if he needs to use you for something, if he's got a bigger plan for you than you can ever see, sometimes he'll he'll put these obstacles in our way to to refine us and to make us stronger. Yeah. I mean, he knows how strong we are. We don't know how strong we are. And sometimes he's got to knock us down so that the only. Thing that we can do is go to him. He's the only one that can save you from yourself, from your darkness, from everything. Yeah. I was thinking about. The small adjustments that he makes. And as I look back on, on this entire injury, I remember right before, one of my good friends there said that you better slow down before the Lord slows you down. And, I think my exact words. Or he's not slowing me down. It was right after that this happened. And he does these little things all the time. We just never see them. It's like when you're driving down the highway and you get tired, your eyes get a little heavy and you start to drift. And so these rumble strips. Yeah. And so you hit the rumble strip and you jerk the wheel back and you wake up and you're driving, you're thinking who put that there. Stupid design. Yeah. And then you go a little farther and everything's good and then you go again. But this time you go past the strip, some gravel, and you start to get caught up in that, and you pull back and you're like, oh my gosh, I can't believe that. First the rumble strips, now the gravel. What else is going to get in my way? He he's trying to wake you up. He's trying to wake exactly right. He's trying to wake you up. Well then you're driving and you fall asleep and you go past Rumble strip past the gravel into the guardrail, and you hit the guardrail. Your car spins out and you wake up and you get out of the car, and you're. You're so mad because this happened to your car. Now you got to deal with insurance and all these other problems that are going to come from this one. And he stopped you and he stopped you. But as you get out and you look at your car, you look over the guardrail, you realize there's a cliff that you never saw the entire time he saw the cliff. He puts these things in our way to wake us up, because he sees that cliff that we never see in sentences. All happened. Your perspective on life has changed for the better, hasn't it? It's definitely changed. It's made me more aware of where my focus should lie. Yeah, think before it line a lot with myself. Even though I say, you know, I was trying to help people. I was helping people was how much of that was for me also, now I, more focused on God. If you could go back and have the choice for it to happen or not happen, what would you choose? What would I choose would probably be for it to happen differently. But if I didn't have that choice, I would not take it away because of where it is leading me. Now. I still wish that I had been able to be more involved in my kids growing up, like in their life, but I feel that. He has a plan that's going to involve that as well, like them as well, I hope, but if it's his will, it's as well. I cannot pretend to know what he's thinking. Isaiah 55 eight through nine says, for my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways. My ways, declares the Lord. As the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts. We're not always going to know what God's plan is for us and. Even in those moments of darkness, even in those moments of hard times, he's building us. He's refining us, and he's guiding us to a higher path. Thank you, everyone for joining us today. I hope that you enjoyed this message. God bless

Hello, everyone. Welcome back to FORLOVENESS. I'm Taylor, and I'm Ryan. How are you today? Tonight, actually, I'm pretty good. I'm excited to get this episode done. I've been working really hard on it. I think that this one is going to end up being a favorite for sure. I think so, I think it. I hope that it helps people. We're going to get very vulnerable today and talk about, a lot of personal stories, very personal stories in some cases. And, and last week was a hard one for everyone. It was and what we're doing today is we're actually answering the question that gets asked a lot in these situations, which is not so much of God. Where were you? But it's how could you have let this happen to me? You're all powerful. Almighty. How could you let this happen? Why? Why? God? So we're going to answer that today, but we're going to frame it a little differently than we normally do and use a lot of personal stories, and then back that up with some scripture from several stories. So when we were looking at things, we realized that. First and foremost, God is always there. And while sometimes it might not feel like it. His hand is always on your life. And he's always moving pieces around. And there's multiple different reasons. God can allow hard things to happen, and one of them is that he uses suffering to prepare you for your calling. does, and we're going to use a lot of examples from our personal life right now and tie them to biblical stories. So the first one is the story of Joseph, which you can read in Genesis. It's about betrayal, extreme suffering, all to build him up, to be able to do what God needed him to do. Yeah. And when me and Ryan were talking about this is made me. I mean, we kind of thought of this story about. Some betrayal that I've had in my life. And I will say that at this point in my life, I was not close to God at all. And that does play a big part in this. I had gone out with some people from work who I thought were my friends, but definitely were not. I ended up out with these girls and at and we ended up at a strip club. I was not 21. So that's the first thing right there. I definitely didn't need to be there just because of my age. And. I was following them around because I wanted to fit in. And I ended up taking a shot with some of these girls and got drugged. And I remember the moment I remember sitting down and kind of passing out from that fast forward. The club closes, I'm passed out, and I get thrown into a cab and the cab doesn't take me home. The cab driver takes me to a hotel and. And rapes me. That must have been really hard. Yeah. I mean, the girls that I was with, the girls they trusted, who were all older than me, too, and that I worked with, they left me. Yeah, they left me there. And I had no way to get home. And I had nobody to protect me. But I will say that I thank God that. I ended up safe and sound the next day in my bed, at home with my family, because that situation could have turned so much worse. And this is something that I had to forgive. I had to forgive the people that I worked with. I had to forgive the, the man that did this to me. And now I'm able to help other people that have gone through the same thing. Genesis 5020 says, you intended to harm me, but God intended it all for good. He brought me to this position so I could save the lives of many people. Now that's amazing. I, feel that even though you felt God wasn't with you, he was with you. Oh, yeah. And totally preparing you for this. This journey that we're currently on and the one that we, that we already know is coming after, But I was somewhere that I didn't need to be. I was not in a godly place. Right. And I think that's partly because you were not with God at that time of your life, and you're easily swept up by the enemy, and the enemy. Maybe you had a good idea that you were something, you were a light, and he was trying to bring you into the darkness and wreck you and hope that you would remain there with him. And not only were you not with God, but completely shun him and stay away from him because of what happened to you and that's what God is really good at. Is taking these situations and flipping them on the enemy. Yeah. And taking someone that is in complete despair and building them up and bringing them up and letting them do important work for, for his kingdom. Yeah. He was, he definitely was there in that situation. And that was several years ago for you. So it's taken a lot of time for that healing in that understanding and in you to sort of refine yourself and your character and get closer to God so that you could talk about this willingly. Some people aren't even able to talk about it. I think it's harder for me to hear you say it than it is for you to say it. Yeah, probably same with some of the things that I deal with. I just focus on. How lucky I was to wake up unharmed the next day and go home and be be at home with my family, I, I do, I honestly feel so lucky. Yeah. This isn't a big city where that doesn't always happen that way. Usually it's it's much sadder situation could have been much worse, but sometimes God allows that betrayal that breaks us, because it's the only way to position you so that he can use you for your destiny. God can also use your suffering to refine you. Yeah, he definitely can. And that reminds me of a story that I have. This has been about ten years now, and I suffered from a brain injury. At work. And everything completely collapsed around me. My my family life collapsed. My work was gone. I I was in despair. I had really questioned God. And the the question I asked right away was why? How could you do this to me? Your identity. You felt like it was gone. Yeah. I wasn't away from God. I wasn't close to him, but I. I was very aware of God, and I. I talked to God, I prayed to God, I read, scriptures, not faithfully. But I did. I went to church, not faithfully, but I did. But when this happened it really pushed me away. I really started to question and I was again for another time in my life very angry with God. And I went the complete 180 opposite direction of what I needed to do. What I needed to do was really step into God. Right. But I didn't. In early on in that. No, I felt like no one understood me. Yeah. And as I look back, I realize that he put people in my life and situations that had suffered it. Probably, probably at times that I needed to hear it the most. Right. People that knew what I was going through and they could talk to me about it because I wouldn't listen to anybody else, I wouldn't listen to doctors or family or anyone else because I just I knew they didn't know what I was going through and what I was feeling. But I've often said to you and to others that looking into this now that I wouldn't trade it I wouldn't go back because I know that has changed me for the good. And I still struggle with it. I still don't drive a vehicle. I there's things that I still can't do. I've learned in this time to manage my life in a way to be able to get through it. But we spend a lot of time together and you know that I have issues and things that I can't do well. And so I think I feel like I'm still learning from this, but I also am grateful to it, and I'm grateful that it wasn't worse the when it first happened. I remember asking, God, is this going to be it? Like, is this what I'm going to be for the rest of my life? I couldn't speak, I couldn't do anything, and as this as that time changed and as the time went on, I realized that this was a good thing ultimately, and it would be a good thing. And it's gotten better. Obviously. But there is more to come from this. I think I'm still learning is being refined from this. And what this, what this reminded me of, was the story of the prodigal son in Luke 15 2224. So he returned home to his father, and while he was still a long way off, his father saw him coming, filled with love and compassion, he ran to his son, embraced him and kissed him. For this son of mine was dead and has now returned to life. He was lost, but now he is found. That reminds me of now. I was very far away. I was angry with God, but he never left me. Yeah. And now that I'm back with him, he's welcomed me with open arms, maybe more than he ever has before. And so in this time, he's really exposed my weakness and test and tested me a lot to reveal my strength. Yeah. I mean, that enemy attacks you and destroys you. God just sits there and develops you. And I feel like I'm still being developed today. And God can also use your suffering to deliver others also. Absolutely. And that that still kind of taps into my brain injury and my, my first marriage and my fatherhood, my identity, everything that I was, I had just cascading failure. When that happened, my marriage that was already rocky fell apart. I was unable to provide for my children. Or my family for that matter. I, my identity had been stripped. I had a, I had a career and I was that I was, you know this this dad and this. I was a firefighter. And I, I was all these things and all of a sudden in literally one day it was just vanished into thin air and there was nothing I could do about it. That was very difficult. To sit there and not be able to do anything. And the more I tried. The worse it got. Yeah. And I think that's important is because I was the one trying. Right. I wasn't ever going to God and asking God because I was angry. I didn't want to talk to him because I feel like he he let this happen to me. When I didn't felt like I didn't deserve it, I probably did. Right. I think we all do. But I felt sort of stuck in the consequences of everything I had probably done in not calling on God when I needed to. And that failure sent me just spiraling out of control. Honestly, it it caused it caused me to lose everything. But now I can see that my time in the wilderness, like Moses, 40 years in the desert, my time in this wilderness is. I'm on my way back to set people free. Exodus chapter three one and two. One day Moses was tending the flock of his father in law and he came to Sinai. The mountain of God there, the angel of the Lord appeared to him. And a blazing fire in the middle of a bush. Then the Lord told him, now go, for I am sending you to Pharaoh. You must lead my people Israel out of Egypt. This makes me think of all these these last two stories. I gave the struggles in the in the fire that is refining me, and the iron that is sharpening me. To be able to answer this calling that he gave me. If he would have given me this calling six months ago, even I would have no way been able to do it in 2 or 3 years ago. I would have completely not answered the call. I would have just hit ignore right and moved on. And other people now are going to be able to. Reap the benefits of your suffering experiences. Yeah. I think if we will take all of our suffering that we have to go through and understand it is for a greater good, or there is a greater good that will come out of it. It may not be work. Well, I can guarantee it won't be when we want it to be. Yeah. I've got this. This brain injury is a ten year epic at this point, and I'm still not through it. And I'm still not in a position to help people the way that I want to help them. But That pain and suffering that I've endured helps me become an authority that I can carry this just like the people that helped me talk about it. That talk to me about it. That, that understood. I now actually have that experience that I can help people I have. Yeah. And I'm I'm. You seen. I'm more than willing to share that story because it's it's just easier when you know someone has gone through these things. Failed marriage is struggling to not be able to provide as a man, not being able to provide for your children. And it's very difficult. Right. and God also uses our suffering to reveal our strengths. Like the thorn in Paul's side. He finds power and removed weakness. Yeah. And we we talked earlier today about some of the things that I've struggled with in the past. I know for a long time I struggled with. An eating disorder. And, you know, that began at the beginning of high school in I mean. It consumed me. It tore me down. And it made me miss out on a lot of things. I didn't go really to high school at all. I didn't get to have the experiences that all my friends had. I didn't get to go to prom and all the dances and all that stuff. And for a long time, it was very hard for me. I didn't get to go to college, and I still think about, sometimes. Did I miss out on that experience? But God didn't need you in those experiences. You were going to school. You were going to cause you were going to God's. Because not everyone can handle the things that that you've dealt with. Well, in that specifically I think led to me moving to Texas. I didn't grow up in Texas. I grew up in Missouri and. If I wouldn't have had such a hard time at that point in my life, I don't think I would have moved to Texas and my life would not be where it is today. If I wouldn't have. You also wouldn't have experienced the first story you shared. Right? Yeah. Which would not have said you would not have been able to. To speak on that and help people with that. Yeah. Or the eating disorder or the other things that you deal with. Yeah. Something else too that I deal with is. A of years ago, actually, I was diagnosed with bipolar disorder. I remember, and I think that that's probably one of the hardest times of my life. I know it was definitely the hardest thing for our relationship. For sure. I can see, though, the benefits that it had. Ultimately, if we got if if you're able to get through it right, I was I, I was not doing well at that time. That was. One of the worst places I've ever been in my life mentally. It was very hard. I didn't know what was going on in my mind. I didn't know why I was having the feelings that I was having. I didn't know why I was having the thoughts that I was having. And I was also destroying you at the same time. Yeah. But had I not had experience with, mental health issues, depression, anxiety, all these things in my own life. I probably would not have been able to deal with what you were going through because I had no idea at the time. Right. And I could see that you were in there. I knew that you were in there. And I mean, like my, like I was, there was still a real part of me. Yes. Yeah. I could see that you were in there and I was struggling because at the time I didn't know what was going on. But I knew this wasn't you just being mad one day. Yeah. You didn't just wake up and decide all these changes were going to happen, and this was the end of everything. You know, you were going to go do whatever you're going to go do. I mean I think we can quickly elaborate I, I was, I was very angry. A lot of times I was very destructive. I mean, I was breaking things in the house, which is not me at all. Right. Yeah. You were definitely acting uncharacteristic. I was drinking a lot, which is not me. I don't drink a ton. I was just so angry. You know, I was just the opposite of who I normally. Of who I really am. But luckily, you had some support. Yeah. Me? Yeah. A friend. Your mother was a great help to me, but I think in the end, it really strengthened our relationship. I think it did. I think it gave us both understanding. I already knew you had my back, and now you knew I had yours. And this is I mean, this is exactly what we said at the beginning. He used that, he used the suffering to reveal the strength in you, the strength in me and the strength in us, in our relationship. Yeah. And second Corinthians 12 8 or 9, it says three different times I beg the Lord to take it away. Each time he said, my grace is all you need. My power works best in weakness. So now I'm glad to boast about my weakness, so that the power of Christ can work through me. Yeah, sometimes that thorn in our side is what makes us stronger. And we use those experiences to do our best works for God. Yeah. Without all these experiences that we've shared up to now, we wouldn't be where we are right now. And we would have. No, I don't like the word authority, but we would have no place to speak on almost anything that we talk about. Right? We have had to forgive everyone, including ourselves in God. I mean, I've shared two stories where I was very angry with God. Right. And like the father he is. He was always willing to welcome us both back with open arms, no matter what we did and our cousin the other day actually framed this or worded this in such a great way. He said, we don't have to forgive God because God doesn't need any forgiving, right? Like he does everything right. He's perfect. You don't have to forgive God because God needs to be forgiven. But we have to forgive God for ourselves in our own mind. Yeah. helps with entire process that he wants for us. And he uses our suffering to reveal a strength. And he can also use our suffering to build an unusual faith. Yeah. and I got some news recently, I think we all deal with this when we are watching someone we love suffer through an illness, or even if we lose someone close to us in our life. But have zero power to change the circumstances. It forces us into that position of total dependance. Yeah. Where you've got to put down everything you've ever relied on and say, you know, I can't do this, but I know who can. Yeah. That reminds me of a story in Matthew, the Roman centurion. Yes. Matthew eight eight he says, but the officer said, Lord, I am not worthy to have you come into my home. Just say the word from where you are, and my servant will be healed. This is his total reliance on God because he commanded people. He had a lot of authority within within the army, the Roman army. And he had to stop everything. He could fix anything he wanted to except something like this. And he had to go to Jesus and just get down on his knees and displayed total faith in him. He was a Gentile man. Yeah. And Jesus even said in no one in Israel have I found this type of faith, and you know it. Then he said, rise, go. It has been done for you because according to your faith, right? That doesn't mean that that God is going to heal everyone you want him to heal when you pray to him, right? It does happen. I've seen it happen. You've seen it happen. And we've all heard stories. But there is a plan, and we don't know that plan. And he breaks you down to that. The only option that you have is to be fully reliant on him. That's what he wants. It is in Isaiah 55, verse eight nine, for my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways, my ways, declares the Lord. As the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than yours and my thoughts than your thoughts. This is telling us that we really don't know what's going on and we have to trust him. If you believe in God and you believe in your salvation, you know that Jesus there, he's coming through for you. He's got your back. Yeah. Yes. And even though in the moment you may not see this as a good thing, it is a good thing. It's just not a good thing for us in that moment. And he understands that. And he, he side with us. Yes. that leads me to this story in Lazarus in John 1135, the shortest but one of the most powerful verses in the Bible. Just as Jesus wept, which shows his human emotions and his sadness with us. And God uses suffering to display his power. Even his resurrection power. Times. Yeah. This makes me think of my dad. You know, growing up my whole entire life, I had a really hard time with my dad. He wasn't. He wasn't around very much. And even when he started to come around, it wasn't the relationship that I was looking for. I tried for years and years to, have that father daughter that close. A father daughter bond. And I prayed for my father to to be present and to love me. And eventually that hope just died. And after a long time of suffering in. Just being so sad that it wasn't happening, that he kind of just died. And God didn't answer that prayer. I do have my step dad who is who is so amazing and who I'm so thankful for. But there was always something that I felt like was missing a little bit, and I was looking for my father in that. And what I realized is that. After I put to death that hope for my father to. To be there with me. Jesus revealed himself as my faithful father and provided his presence. In a relationship in a way that wouldn't have been possible if the original hope had been fulfilled. Yeah, you may not have your stepfather in your life. Yeah. That's also true. Is, you know, he's he's a great guy. He's a godly guy. He's always willing to talk to you about, you know, scripture. Yeah. And answer questions if you need it. So yeah. Because he didn't answer this prayer, he revealed something much bigger and much better. And he way better plan. Yeah. In in John 1146, Jesus responded, didn't I tell you that you would see God's glory? If you believe? Yeah. I mean, that's amazing. That's really exactly answers what the questions that you had, if you would just believe he's going to take care of everything. But we try to do things in our own time and our own way and our own will. And it usually doesn't work out. And it's what we think we want and what we think will be the best for us. But in reality, God's plan is always better. What is that quote you said to me that one day you came up with, you said. Your earthly father gives you what you want, and your heavenly father gives you what you need. Yes. Yeah, it's exactly it. Dad, I need money, dad, I need new clothes. If you need water, if you believe enough, your Heavenly Father will give you his things as well. Yeah, that's true too. Seems to work out for us that way anyways. Yeah. God uses suffering to prepare you. Suffering to refine you. Suffering to deliver others reveals strength. Build faith. To display resurrection power, but also to refine character and strengthen your faith. Yeah. When I think about some of the past struggles I've gone through in my life as a result of some of the other struggles I've gone through. Yeah. I think about past drug use. Self-harm is a cut on myself. Unhealthy relationships with him, with people, with women in particular. But also with just people I shouldn't be hanging around with because they were dragging me down And for a long time, that's who I was. And that was my shelter. That's what I was doing. But God was sifting me out or allowing me to be sifted out. Allowing all the weakness to come out of me and that strength to to remain. Yeah. And as my relationship with God has gotten better. Those old chains, they've been broken. Most of them long ago. And that's where I realized that Christ's prayers. And he does pray for us. But Christ's prayers for us are much stronger than and more powerful than our own failures. Yeah. We hold on to those failures because again, this is earthiness of what we see. But you know take you back to that Isaiah 55 passage where it says we don't know what's going on. Right. Basically. Yes. Right. We have no idea what's going on. I've got to you just sit back and relax. Which is seems it's really hard for us to do, but it's it's so simple and it's so much easier to do. Yes. When you really can surrender everything. Yes. Things tend to move slower. They move easier. There's less stress because God can just handle it. Yeah. He can handle everything. You don't have to control it anymore. No, that's a big issue as well. Control that we do. Yeah, we try to control every aspect of our life, And in reality, the only one that's going to control it is God. and all the struggles we go through, whether it be drug use or self-mutilation or unhealthy relationships or finances or kids, anything. Right? All that is to sift us out, shake out the bad, keep the good. As long as we're giving it to Christ, those chains are broken and, and we can move on with our life and be much easier. If your only job everyday is to worship God. You're going to have a much easier life. And it is much easier to stay away from those things even when they rear their ugly head. And the accuser. As I read these things and some of these things I've forgotten about. Yeah. They've been a long time ago. But it's almost like I'm looking at them and that accusers in my ear saying, oh, you remember that? Remember how good that felt when you were down? Maybe next time you're down and you just slide back a little bit. Yeah, but I don't need that. Yeah. Nothing I've ever done in my life feels as good as God being in my life. So true. In the scriptures. In Luke 22, verse 31 and 32, Jesus is talking to Peter, but he's calling him by his original name. He says, Simon. Simon, Satan has asked to sift each of you like wheat. But I have pleaded in prayer for you, Simon, that your faith should not fail. So when you have repented and turn to me again, strengthen your brothers. All these things that we go through, and we've talked about this over and over, each thing we've done and had to go through has made us stronger, and it's allowed us to strengthen our brothers because we can talk to people about things we've been through and understand, just like other people that have been through. It can also talk to us and help us. Yeah, we're not the authority on anything, Ghazi. Authority on everything. But he gives us the ability to get through these struggles and strengthen ourselves to be able to help other people and not just help them. Yeah, and not just help them get through their troubles, but help them get to Christ. Who will get them through their troubles? Yes. It's not us getting or the therapist or whoever, or the doctor or the medication getting people through it. It's Christ getting them through it. And God lets what's weakness break so that what strong can remain. Yeah. And that brings us to the last section, which is where we talk about how God brings the greatest good from the greatest suffering. Yeah. And that's where we take it back to episode six a little bit and talk about the for me personally. Childhood sexual abuse. And we can even go back to your, to your assault that, that you went through. But it's the foundational evil that the enemy uses. Like we said, there's a trinity of evil to to lie, to kill and destroy. But the power of the cross answers this question. What can you do with this? It take the very worst thing that's ever happened to you and make it the source of your greatest authority and the proof of his redemptive power. Yeah. When you go through this worst case scenarios in your life and it's different for everyone. Yeah. Some things that that you've been through I could never handle and vice versa. Right. Some things that are a big deal to me might not be a big deal to somebody else, but for us, the worst thing that we have ever gone through. Yeah. Makes it the source of our greatest authority and the proof of his redemptive power. Yeah. In Romans five eight. But God showed his great love for us by sending Christ to die for us while we were still sinners. Second Corinthians 521 says, For God made Christ, who never sinned, to be the offering for our sin, so that we could be made right with God through Christ. If God can bring good from the cross, then there's nothing. There's no situation he can't redeem. The crucifixion is what the enemy thought was going to give him the victory. Yeah. But again what God did was take that, that horrible evil and spin it for the greatest good. Yes. So, from Joseph to the cross, every story of suffering is really a story about forgiveness. It's about forgiving others, forgiving God for his mysterious ways, receiving forgiveness for our past, and understanding that the ultimate suffering of Christ is the very engine that makes all forgiveness possible. Your suffering is not outside of this story. It is the very place where God wants to meet you, with the power to both receive and extend his costly, transformative forgiveness. Oh so good. And I know that we have not actually asked this yet or even mentioned this. And there's a reason we wanted to get everything done. And at this point, I love to ask if you if any of this helps you, any of these episodes helped you to share them and pass them forward. the hope is that people will spread this word of forgiveness and love to other people that may benefit from it. Yeah. Thank you so much for being here today, everyone. I hope that you were able to get something out of this message. I hope that this helped you and can hopefully help you in the future. Whatever you're going through, a tough time.